The sad thing is that by preaching their extreme, simplistic, erroneous and misleading “Truths” thay are leading the gullible further and further away from an understanding of the true world, the intricate ecosystem, and how animals interact. It is by ignoring all these, and setting Homo sapiens up as some saviour of the world and animals that they will in fact result in it’s collapse.

To get back to the original article. There can be no doubt that the use of fur is the least damaging to the environment when compared to pretty well all the other indsustries that sustain our ridiculous Western life style. The fur industry is a tiny industry compared to most others. Does HSUS REALLY believe that other industries don’t put in even more investment of energy, and use even more petrochemicals and other so called “nasties”? They’re in cloud cuckoo land if they do.

As said before above. If you want to make a difference, start cleaning up the culprit that creates the worse damage, not the one that creates the least.

Oh! just one thing. Everything organic before 60 years ago? – rubbish! Synthetic pesticides and herbicides perhaps, but for hundreds of years before that, man was pouring some pretty nasty stuff onto the earth to help his crops grow. Arsenic and lead spring immediately to mind but there were a lot more.

Feed the world with a vegan, organic diet? In your dreams! This would have been possible perhaps 1n 1900 (my grandfather’s time) when world population was just 1.6 billion (that equates to the population of today’s India, spread over the whole world.) When I was born it was 2.5 billion. It is now 6.7 billion! and rising to an expected 9 billion in just 40 more years. Does that worry you guys so little that you think you have time to go after the fur industry? How are you going to find food, water and clothing for that many people. Jeez guys! you think knocking the fur industry is going to have an effect on that? – Get real! If it’s animal suffering you are really worried about, (and not perceived and erroneous wealth envy), then you aint seen NOTHING yet. You might indeed be able to do something about to minimise it but you wont stop it, and you are going to have to get cracking fast and seriously. Dissing the fur industry aint going to do a thing about it. You are seriously barking up the wrong tree. I wont be around to see it, but for anyone under 35, you’ve got some some pretty ugly stuff on the horizon.

Your grandchildren are going to be lucky just to SEE a wild animal (apart from pictures). And it wont be the fur industry thats done that, it will be your cosy Western lifestyle, the one and only culprit. Stop knocking others and look to yourself. Yes, one person CAN make a difference, and one can grow to two, to a hundred, to thousands, and millions. But it happens through one individual’s quiet example. Not by ramming emotional dogma and suppression down other peole’s throats if they dont agree with you. If you don’t agree with fur – fine don’t wear it, but don’t try and force your views on others. If others see you and agree with you, then they too will stop wearing it. If they don’t, then maybe you are wrong. Then if you want you might change YOUR ways to their ways, it’s your choice. But to get all emotional about it, to keep spouting spurious “facts”, and ramming rhetoric down people’s throats aint going to change a thing. You’ve got just a few decades left to grow up. you’d better start today!

poor Kitsune she has a scar on her left flank now ):

and another thing why are we suddenly talking about organic food? what does fur have to do with food?(except that people who wear it are food) I mean seriously?!

STAY ON TOPIC
and by the way “IT” GO AWAY!!

Didn’t see your response right off cause as i said, i ignore all this FBR bull when i can.

BUT, i don’t know anything other then “fbr” like you always point out they hide behind. i usually default everyone/thing to a she XD i don’t know why

You WILL NOT CHANGE HER MIND and she OBVIOUSLY gets off on this.

No matter what you say, she ALWAYS says the same things back. That you are unintellgent or your comments have nothing to so with what she is saying or that you can’t PROVE anything.

And even the times people link her to reports showing proof, she poo-poos that too.

PLEASE try to just ignore this animal abuse justifying moron and lets just get on with our lives.

Either way, the internet is always pretty anonymous, no matter how many links you post to personalized websites.

~*~
On Organic farming feeding the world – hem, haw. Some studies show it’s possible. They have an alright argument. There’s an argument here that sheds the opposite light:

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/online/1601/why-organic-food-cant-feed-world

Now, I usually don’t support GMOs… but they may end up feeding the world. And I’m not alone, plenty of Nobel Laureates are in support of GMOs for this reason:
http://www.monsanto.com/biotech-gmo/asp/topic.asp?id=SafetyGeneticallyModifiedFoods

The world doesn’t have the climate of Florida. Duh, you know that. But a LOT of the communities who do share your latitude are (and have been) going through nasty cycles of deforestation and desertification; in the name of exportation and big business, of all things.

It’s a tough call. Even if Organic can replace Traditional methods across the globe, the GMOs that have already been applied will be detrimental to the seedlings and germination of Organic species.

In cold climates, items can be canned and stored – but it takes time. And time is money. And not a lot of people have money these days.

But this thread is about fur, no?

Sure some organic produce stays long enough to be transported across borders. However, I could not go into a supermarket and maintain a diverse organic vegetarian diet, unless I was willing get many of the produce flown in. In other parts of the world people might be able to. Sure better logistics have allowed more produce to become available, however that is only one part of the issue.

Farmers already rotate crops. They use industrial fertilizers because they’re more effective than organic ones. Of course, the organic fertilizers come largely from waste of farm animals (which wouldn’t exist in a purely vegan world). Going to purely organic farming means less yield per land area and thus more land would have to be used. I’m not sure whether the land could be used indefinitely as you claim, but I certainly know that before industrial fertilizers became available depletion of farm land was a serious problem.

If you go far enough back in history when all produce was organic (although we’ve always eaten animals), you’ll find that the population of the planet was significantly less and that people’s diets were significantly worse. Is that what you want to go back to?

thats nonsense, they do stay fresh long enough to be transported long distance, thats easily to observe looking at the labels in a supermarket, where i can see organic fresh veggies from other countries.

there are also canned organic veggies.

The reason that many fruits werent available has nothing to do with organic or not organic.
more with the developing of highways and railroads. and anyway, many fruits became available in a time everything was still organic, so there is another argumement whats so obviously incorrect.

the rest of the arguments are equally questionable, like stating that using chemicals you can use the land longer. what about natural fertilers, crop rotation, etc, you can use the land indefenitely that way.

“organic” isnt a utopia, it was a reality until not long ago,a dn still is a reality.
the true utopia is to produce whatever we want for as cheap as possible without regard for nature and thinking we can live unattached from the rest of the world / environment.

well, i will stop commenting on “it”, because its obvious what its motivations are, and its arguments hardly can face the facts.
indeed, its like a politician, much hot air.

I have written a detailed argument before on why it’s not feasible to chase a utopia where everyone is fed with organic vegetarian diet. I don’t know why you want me to keep repeating myself, but I’ll make the main point again:

Non-organic food (i.e., use of various chemicals) is not produced just to spite environmentalists. It’s produced because it’s a more efficient way to produce food. You can get higher yields from the same amount of land and you can keep using that land for longer. The produce will stay edible for longer and can be transported further away. Moving to purely organic vegetable diet would mean that we would have to use significantly more resources to produce food, or in all likelihood we would not be able to produce enough to provide for everyone.

All I need to do is to look at the 2 feet of snow outside my window to realize that fully organic vegetarian diet could not feed people in this part of the world. You can’t grow the produce locally for the vast majority of the year and you couldn’t transport it from elsewhere because organic vegetables don’t stay edible for long enough (you don’t need to go back very long in history to find a time when many fruits were simply not available).

IF “it” really addressed the questions we asked that would be one thing, but that’s not the case – hence the reason we are fed up. There are others who constructively argue and I don’t think anyone’s ever ignored them. And FBR is good because “it” writes very well without saying much of anything.. would make a great politician. FBR.. FDR…but I’d say the similarities with those two would end at the initials…

E

I may not always agree with FBR, but he has every right to make his arguments; he does it quite eloquently and has a firm grasp on the rules of logic. That shouldn’t scare you guys – that should give you the drive to rationalize with the man, not to condemn him for going against your grain.

It may be frustrating as hell, but I’ve seen the determinism in most of your posts; a cogent response that doesn’t rely on personal attacks or accusations is NOT beyond you.

We’re all here because we care, at least partially, about something above and beyond our own lives. This is a great site, with informative posts – I hate seeing these childish antics play out in what otherwise would have been a healthy debate.