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	<title>Comments on: MTV Gets Veganized With New Compassion Over Killing Ads!!</title>
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		<title>By: Shaun Monson</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217924</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun Monson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217924</guid>
		<description>The images in the COK ad are actually tame in comparison to what I&#039;ve seen, though I give them all due credit for getting it aired on any TV station that also advertises fast food. The fact is there are simply too many animal products being sold for most stations to accept an ad that directly opposes everything they&#039;re selling at commercials. 

The documentary film &quot;Earthlings&quot;  includes footage that is much stronger ... sadly. We too heard people use words like &quot;assaulting&quot; and &quot;desensitizing&quot; in regards to our non-fiction film. In fact, when distributors saw &quot;Earthlings&quot; at an industry screening, they specifically asked me to re-edit it &quot;so as to not upset viewers&quot; and to &quot;cut around the more unpleasant aspects of the film.&quot; Which only begs the question: &quot;How much truth should be cut out of a non-fiction film?


It&#039;s interesting to note too that Hollywood has a perennial interest in horror films, which so many audiences enjoy.  Are these not assaulting and desensitizing, and yet completely fictional?  However, the same viewers suddenly become too fragile, and too easily offended, to witness anything upsetting ... if it&#039;s REAL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The images in the COK ad are actually tame in comparison to what I&#8217;ve seen, though I give them all due credit for getting it aired on any TV station that also advertises fast food. The fact is there are simply too many animal products being sold for most stations to accept an ad that directly opposes everything they&#8217;re selling at commercials. </p>
<p>The documentary film &#8220;Earthlings&#8221;  includes footage that is much stronger &#8230; sadly. We too heard people use words like &#8220;assaulting&#8221; and &#8220;desensitizing&#8221; in regards to our non-fiction film. In fact, when distributors saw &#8220;Earthlings&#8221; at an industry screening, they specifically asked me to re-edit it &#8220;so as to not upset viewers&#8221; and to &#8220;cut around the more unpleasant aspects of the film.&#8221; Which only begs the question: &#8220;How much truth should be cut out of a non-fiction film?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note too that Hollywood has a perennial interest in horror films, which so many audiences enjoy.  Are these not assaulting and desensitizing, and yet completely fictional?  However, the same viewers suddenly become too fragile, and too easily offended, to witness anything upsetting &#8230; if it&#8217;s REAL.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217837</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217837</guid>
		<description>So it&#039;s not WalMart-exclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it&#8217;s not WalMart-exclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217836</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217836</guid>
		<description>Kevin - ew. But apparently blooming is natural, due to Myoglobin. The amount of this protein is influenced by diet, species, etc., and oxygenation triggers the color.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; ew. But apparently blooming is natural, due to Myoglobin. The amount of this protein is influenced by diet, species, etc., and oxygenation triggers the color.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217818</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217818</guid>
		<description>That farmer&#039;s story is touching, and I think reflects why many decide not to eat meat. But again, it stretches the definition of humane treatment to an unattainable goal. I agree, by the definition of the word - killing is not humane. But we need to understand that these animals are bred to die and do what we can to help them while they live. I feel very strongly that if the movement for improving conditions for livestock animals would try to go with baby steps rather than call for the instant total abolition of the meat industry we could accomplish so much.

As for Wal-Mart, they have spent millions and lobbied for years to attempt to stop regulations requiring meat to have Country of Origins Labels. As far as I know, Wal-Mart still refuses to release information regarded where they get their meats from. Hell for all we know it could be Soylent Green. That doesn&#039;t even count their practice of &#039;blooming&#039; meats. Basically each container contains a certain amount of chemicals and gases that give the meat a false look of freshness. When the plastic seal is broken (when they stock the meat), it goes from a greenish, blueish color to red.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That farmer&#8217;s story is touching, and I think reflects why many decide not to eat meat. But again, it stretches the definition of humane treatment to an unattainable goal. I agree, by the definition of the word &#8211; killing is not humane. But we need to understand that these animals are bred to die and do what we can to help them while they live. I feel very strongly that if the movement for improving conditions for livestock animals would try to go with baby steps rather than call for the instant total abolition of the meat industry we could accomplish so much.</p>
<p>As for Wal-Mart, they have spent millions and lobbied for years to attempt to stop regulations requiring meat to have Country of Origins Labels. As far as I know, Wal-Mart still refuses to release information regarded where they get their meats from. Hell for all we know it could be Soylent Green. That doesn&#8217;t even count their practice of &#8216;blooming&#8217; meats. Basically each container contains a certain amount of chemicals and gases that give the meat a false look of freshness. When the plastic seal is broken (when they stock the meat), it goes from a greenish, blueish color to red.</p>
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		<title>By: Whoever...</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217510</link>
		<dc:creator>Whoever...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217510</guid>
		<description>Thanks Veganstuff...

I guess humanity has so much to learn and evolve before we truly consider ourselves humane...

This is an extract of what a former beef farmer said at:

http://www.humanemyth.org/haroldbrown.htm


&quot;[...] I have often heard the word &quot;humane&quot; used in relation to meat, dairy, eggs, and other products like cosmetics. I have always found this curious, because my understanding is that humane means to act with kindness, tenderness, and mercy. I can tell you as a former animal farmer that while it may be true that you can treat a farm animal kindly and show tenderness toward them, mercy is a different matter. In 4-H, I saw many, many young people treat their animals as they would a cat or dog, actually more like a dog because it is kind of hard to lead a cat on a halter. And I saw many young people cry their eyes out when they auctioned off their animals at the end of the county fair. I always wondered about that. Why do we have a double standard?
 
[...]
 
Eventually I realized that all animals, including humans, exist for their own reasons, with their own interests. This was a profound revelation for me because that nagging little voice in the back of my mind had always, since childhood, told me that I wasn&#039;t living to my full, authentic potential, that there was something inherently wrong. All my life I had observed the community that existed in a cow herd, how they grieved for a dead calf or herd mate that had been shot by a deer hunter. I had witnessed the joy a cow experiences when she is let out into a fresh new pasture or calves running and kicking up their heels with each other in the field. I now knew for certain that regardless of the rationalizations I had created, when I killed an animal and saw that light leave their eyes, by extinguishing that divine spark, I had broken a sacred trust.  [...]

If I was going to be true to myself and live to my full potential I had to reevaluate, think, and choose. I chose life. So no, in my experience, there is no such thing as humane animal products, humane farming practices, humane transport, or humane slaughter.&quot;


It makes one think, uh...?

At least this proved to me once again that the main goal of major NGOs like PETA, WWF, Greenpeace and others (in spite of all the good they do), is money!
I&#039;m sorry but I have very good reasons to make this statement!

In spite of everything I still believe (maybe I&#039;m being very naive) that animal suffering in the food industry could be &#039;minimized&#039; if there was the will to do it!

I know that meat and fish industry will never end on this planet, but at least there should be ways of minimizing the stress of animals when they are killed. I mean, with so much technology and knowledge and no one can come up with an idea to solve this situation?

Why can&#039;t they produce an innocuous substance that could be put into the food of the animals (to make them fall into deep sleep) that were going to be killed? At least they wouldn&#039;t be aware while they were slaughtered!!!

I don&#039;t know... 

 :(

sorry for the extension of my comment...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Veganstuff&#8230;</p>
<p>I guess humanity has so much to learn and evolve before we truly consider ourselves humane&#8230;</p>
<p>This is an extract of what a former beef farmer said at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.humanemyth.org/haroldbrown.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.humanemyth.org/haroldbrown.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;[...] I have often heard the word &#8220;humane&#8221; used in relation to meat, dairy, eggs, and other products like cosmetics. I have always found this curious, because my understanding is that humane means to act with kindness, tenderness, and mercy. I can tell you as a former animal farmer that while it may be true that you can treat a farm animal kindly and show tenderness toward them, mercy is a different matter. In 4-H, I saw many, many young people treat their animals as they would a cat or dog, actually more like a dog because it is kind of hard to lead a cat on a halter. And I saw many young people cry their eyes out when they auctioned off their animals at the end of the county fair. I always wondered about that. Why do we have a double standard?</p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>Eventually I realized that all animals, including humans, exist for their own reasons, with their own interests. This was a profound revelation for me because that nagging little voice in the back of my mind had always, since childhood, told me that I wasn&#8217;t living to my full, authentic potential, that there was something inherently wrong. All my life I had observed the community that existed in a cow herd, how they grieved for a dead calf or herd mate that had been shot by a deer hunter. I had witnessed the joy a cow experiences when she is let out into a fresh new pasture or calves running and kicking up their heels with each other in the field. I now knew for certain that regardless of the rationalizations I had created, when I killed an animal and saw that light leave their eyes, by extinguishing that divine spark, I had broken a sacred trust.  [...]</p>
<p>If I was going to be true to myself and live to my full potential I had to reevaluate, think, and choose. I chose life. So no, in my experience, there is no such thing as humane animal products, humane farming practices, humane transport, or humane slaughter.&#8221;</p>
<p>It makes one think, uh&#8230;?</p>
<p>At least this proved to me once again that the main goal of major NGOs like PETA, WWF, Greenpeace and others (in spite of all the good they do), is money!<br />
I&#8217;m sorry but I have very good reasons to make this statement!</p>
<p>In spite of everything I still believe (maybe I&#8217;m being very naive) that animal suffering in the food industry could be &#8216;minimized&#8217; if there was the will to do it!</p>
<p>I know that meat and fish industry will never end on this planet, but at least there should be ways of minimizing the stress of animals when they are killed. I mean, with so much technology and knowledge and no one can come up with an idea to solve this situation?</p>
<p>Why can&#8217;t they produce an innocuous substance that could be put into the food of the animals (to make them fall into deep sleep) that were going to be killed? At least they wouldn&#8217;t be aware while they were slaughtered!!!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8230; </p>
<p> <img src='http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>sorry for the extension of my comment&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Erin @ RawfoodsRetreat.com</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217384</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin @ RawfoodsRetreat.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217384</guid>
		<description>lol not even sure if that is really JL posting but if it is. you&#039;re welcome. Kevin - I have boycotted Walmart for twenty years (ok for emergencies i have been there a tiny handful of times in 20 yrs but not many)  but why are they the worst? I boycott them for different reasons but will add it to the list - if you care to elaborate.. thanks! :)

Erin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol not even sure if that is really JL posting but if it is. you&#8217;re welcome. Kevin &#8211; I have boycotted Walmart for twenty years (ok for emergencies i have been there a tiny handful of times in 20 yrs but not many)  but why are they the worst? I boycott them for different reasons but will add it to the list &#8211; if you care to elaborate.. thanks! <img src='http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Erin</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217280</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217280</guid>
		<description>Female, and thanks for the name!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Female, and thanks for the name!</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217182</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217182</guid>
		<description>Thank you for the good responses! I&#039;ll try to keep it short so I don&#039;t go on too much of a rant, but I would like to respond.

Firstly, HumaneMyth.com has been cited to me many times. But I try to view this from an academic standpoint, and HumaneMyth is anything but. That website relies COMPLETELY on anthropomorphizing animals and using rhetoric rather than facts and research. It ignores the different anatomies of the animals in question, and basically every statement boils down to &quot;would you want this to happen to YOU?&quot;. It&#039;s everything I feel is wrong with this kind of animal rights movement, taking a &#039;either go vegan or you&#039;re a murderer&#039; stance.

If we want to help these animals, we need to realize something. We will never, EVER abolish the meat industry. It will always exist. Advocates who only promote abolition get ignored by legislators and the industry. It&#039;s like trying to put out a forest fire by spitting on it.

We need to focus on the biggest evils of the industry - overcrowded, overfeeding, over-milking, and inhumane killing. We cannot take the stance of a broad definition of cruelty as causing any pain at all on any animal. We can&#039;t speak only in hyperbole and exaggerated anthropomorphisms, it&#039;s just not an effective means of generating real change.

We should be pinpointing the biggest offenders to animal cruelty in the meat market (I&#039;m looking at YOU Wal-Mart), calling them out, and using that evidence to generate an outcry that will create better regulations to the meat industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for the good responses! I&#8217;ll try to keep it short so I don&#8217;t go on too much of a rant, but I would like to respond.</p>
<p>Firstly, HumaneMyth.com has been cited to me many times. But I try to view this from an academic standpoint, and HumaneMyth is anything but. That website relies COMPLETELY on anthropomorphizing animals and using rhetoric rather than facts and research. It ignores the different anatomies of the animals in question, and basically every statement boils down to &#8220;would you want this to happen to YOU?&#8221;. It&#8217;s everything I feel is wrong with this kind of animal rights movement, taking a &#8216;either go vegan or you&#8217;re a murderer&#8217; stance.</p>
<p>If we want to help these animals, we need to realize something. We will never, EVER abolish the meat industry. It will always exist. Advocates who only promote abolition get ignored by legislators and the industry. It&#8217;s like trying to put out a forest fire by spitting on it.</p>
<p>We need to focus on the biggest evils of the industry &#8211; overcrowded, overfeeding, over-milking, and inhumane killing. We cannot take the stance of a broad definition of cruelty as causing any pain at all on any animal. We can&#8217;t speak only in hyperbole and exaggerated anthropomorphisms, it&#8217;s just not an effective means of generating real change.</p>
<p>We should be pinpointing the biggest offenders to animal cruelty in the meat market (I&#8217;m looking at YOU Wal-Mart), calling them out, and using that evidence to generate an outcry that will create better regulations to the meat industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Erin Raw foods retreat</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217157</link>
		<dc:creator>Erin Raw foods retreat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217157</guid>
		<description>Wow I cannot believe it (someone pinch me :) but I was going to write something similar to what JL wrote and I sorta agree with him her (he she still doesn&#039;t have the balls to give a name - at least we&#039;d know if it&#039;s a man or woman! - well unless the name were Jesse that would be a tough one, but I digress)

There is NO way I am getting my huge family to go vegan BUT I can definitely encourage them to buy 100% local organic meat. Is it cruelty free? No way. It is not. But it&#039;s better and let&#039;s face it. I think it&#039;s going to be a tough one to get them to all be vegan tomorrow.

Also I buy meat every day (why you ask!? I don&#039;t eat it- I have two old cats - one turning 17 and the other 13 in a few weeks. These two rescue kitties have (for most of their lives) eaten free range and or organic meat and some organic cat food.  I have to buy meat several times a week so I have researched where it comes from.  

I NEVER do Kosher (Kosher is a JOKE and as we all know inhumane) But I have found local sources for organic free range and I know where it comes from. Doesn&#039;t mean it is cruelty free but sorry my cats aren&#039;t going vegan. And for all the vegan pet owners out there make SURE YOUR PETS ARE ON ORGANIC anti biotic free FREE RANGE food!

My family isn&#039;t going vegan either. But they&#039;re starting to eat LESS meat and only buy organic meat and eggs, stop drinking milk... At 60 something years old (the parents) and that&#039;s a big step.. One step at a time. And personally if they don&#039;t give it up okay.. but at least they know that the animal&#039;s life was hopefully not as awful as non organic animal&#039;s and it&#039;s healthier for my family to eat organic... just the facts in life..

I do hope someday they&#039;d give it up altogether. I think I can get my birthmother to do so. She only worked for WWF (not the wresting group ;) for decades. She used to be veg but the dumb doc said she needed meat (BS)  then she got cancer and cut back, but I think I can get her to quit altogether which would be nice :)

Erin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow I cannot believe it (someone pinch me <img src='http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  but I was going to write something similar to what JL wrote and I sorta agree with him her (he she still doesn&#8217;t have the balls to give a name &#8211; at least we&#8217;d know if it&#8217;s a man or woman! &#8211; well unless the name were Jesse that would be a tough one, but I digress)</p>
<p>There is NO way I am getting my huge family to go vegan BUT I can definitely encourage them to buy 100% local organic meat. Is it cruelty free? No way. It is not. But it&#8217;s better and let&#8217;s face it. I think it&#8217;s going to be a tough one to get them to all be vegan tomorrow.</p>
<p>Also I buy meat every day (why you ask!? I don&#8217;t eat it- I have two old cats &#8211; one turning 17 and the other 13 in a few weeks. These two rescue kitties have (for most of their lives) eaten free range and or organic meat and some organic cat food.  I have to buy meat several times a week so I have researched where it comes from.  </p>
<p>I NEVER do Kosher (Kosher is a JOKE and as we all know inhumane) But I have found local sources for organic free range and I know where it comes from. Doesn&#8217;t mean it is cruelty free but sorry my cats aren&#8217;t going vegan. And for all the vegan pet owners out there make SURE YOUR PETS ARE ON ORGANIC anti biotic free FREE RANGE food!</p>
<p>My family isn&#8217;t going vegan either. But they&#8217;re starting to eat LESS meat and only buy organic meat and eggs, stop drinking milk&#8230; At 60 something years old (the parents) and that&#8217;s a big step.. One step at a time. And personally if they don&#8217;t give it up okay.. but at least they know that the animal&#8217;s life was hopefully not as awful as non organic animal&#8217;s and it&#8217;s healthier for my family to eat organic&#8230; just the facts in life..</p>
<p>I do hope someday they&#8217;d give it up altogether. I think I can get my birthmother to do so. She only worked for WWF (not the wresting group <img src='http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  for decades. She used to be veg but the dumb doc said she needed meat (BS)  then she got cancer and cut back, but I think I can get her to quit altogether which would be nice <img src='http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Erin</p>
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		<title>By: JL</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/02/23/mtv-gets-veganized-with-new-compassion-over-killing-ads/comment-page-1/#comment-217050</link>
		<dc:creator>JL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=13780#comment-217050</guid>
		<description>Kevin - I agree with your ideas, but they won&#039;t go far here.

The majority of people on this site, and in all Animal Rights groups, aren&#039;t campaigning for better laws and regulation - they&#039;re campaigning for abolition.

Again, I agree with you, the masses are much more likely to transition from supporting Industrial Meats to Free-Ranged to None, and less likely to make that jump from Industrial Meats to None. 

If this film wanted to be intellectually honest, it would show the intermediate (free-range, pasture-raised, no anti-biotic, etc.) - but the idea is to stop ALL killing, not to lessen suffering, so that would actually detract from their purpose. Animal Welfare works in a tier system - Animal Rights is far less allowing: if animals are used, it&#039;s bad.

Which is why I support the Animal Welfare movement... they aim to lessen suffering, and every little bit helps. I don&#039;t think the &#039;scene&#039; is right for breaking the shell of speciesism yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; I agree with your ideas, but they won&#8217;t go far here.</p>
<p>The majority of people on this site, and in all Animal Rights groups, aren&#8217;t campaigning for better laws and regulation &#8211; they&#8217;re campaigning for abolition.</p>
<p>Again, I agree with you, the masses are much more likely to transition from supporting Industrial Meats to Free-Ranged to None, and less likely to make that jump from Industrial Meats to None. </p>
<p>If this film wanted to be intellectually honest, it would show the intermediate (free-range, pasture-raised, no anti-biotic, etc.) &#8211; but the idea is to stop ALL killing, not to lessen suffering, so that would actually detract from their purpose. Animal Welfare works in a tier system &#8211; Animal Rights is far less allowing: if animals are used, it&#8217;s bad.</p>
<p>Which is why I support the Animal Welfare movement&#8230; they aim to lessen suffering, and every little bit helps. I don&#8217;t think the &#8216;scene&#8217; is right for breaking the shell of speciesism yet.</p>
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