Well put ‘Whoever’ I’m with you on this 100% anger and all.

I’m SURE FBR will be chiming in with there heartless and soulless rations

as you said ‘I hate pseudo intellectual, cool-headed people who think their reasons and arguments are better than other people’s! Ever heard of emotional intelligence? Probably not, because you don’t have it!’

In other news, AWESOME psa!

Jesse…

Your words on the ‘Fur Industry Attacks Hong Kong Star’s Anti-Seal Hunt Documentary’ thread – and I know they’re out of context:
“But there’s not enough fish for both humans and seals, given the human population and the seal population. One must be reduced. [...]
Additionally, IF need-be, there could be an income-based permitting system for a small-scale seal hunt… ”

Now, everyone knows that the seal hunt has as main goal the fur of those animals. It’s not by accident that if hunters had their way, baby seals would be their main target. The alleged depletion of the stocks of fish by seals is a fake argument. Did you actually watch the videos? If they want to control the seal population, why don´t they shoot the animals? Well, because that way they would ruin the fur which is what they really want. How can an alleged over-population of a specific species be controlled by clubbing the animals to death!?

And if you truly are against the fur industry, your words and you agreeing with Doug (who is completely in favour of this barbaric industry) prove otherwise…

Oh, and this is not my cause!!! It’s the cause of the animals rights! The cause to give all animals the right to live their lives in peace and in freedom as humans do (and in many cases humans can’t even do that because of other humans!)!
If you don’t agree with this, then it’s because you think animals are inferior to humans! I mean, you would not approve killing people for their meat or skin would you? Or to control the over-population of humans by killing them, would you? That’s because you believe they are your equals!

So don’t come with your pseudo-intellectual arguments because they belong to someone who believes animals are ours to use as we see fit!

“Animal Rights folk are nothing but irrational, terroristic, would-be murderers who can’t debate wortha darn..”
We debate but it’s people like you that make us become ‘extremists’! You consider us to be terrorists, however a man who clubs a baby seal to death or skins a cat alive is not a terrorist to you!!!
That says a lot about your arguments and your reasons…

What if a group of people would enter your home with the intention of killing your family? Would you fight back? Would you defend you and your family, even if that would mean killing the intruders?
Then why should we do nothing while animals who we love (and who we believe have the same right to be on this planet as humans) are being murdered?
Is it so different from you wanting to protect your family?

If you want to live your life in a beautiful illusion it’s your problem, but don’t come here calling me a terrorist or a potential murderer!!

I am no one special but if everyone on this planet was like me, no animal or human would intentionally be killed, there would be no wars, intolerance, racism, cruelty to humans or animals, the environment would be protected, people would truly be free (and not controlled by imposed fear) and they would be allowed to fulfil their destinies – which means they would be allowed to explore their full potential!!

So don’t you come here and judge me!!!

I harm no one but I’m also not going to stand by and watch monsters have their way and cruelly murder animals!!!

It’s because of people like you, doug and fbr that I consider humans to be the biggest plague on this planet!!

YOU people make people like me feel this way!!!

Whoever – Also, I understand the rage of emotions you feel when you see the footage; it’s the worst of the worst. But how far do you really want to go, as an Animal Rights supporter, to equate humans with non-humans?

You probably want to draw the line at sentient beings, right? But that’s a shifting line, we’re learning more every day about the individual lives of critters.

What about infestation issues? I have a vole in my house that I let in by accident, 3 weeks ago. I made several attempts at catching him humanely, so’s I could throw him back outside to his dens. All attempts failed, and now I find the little bas tard got into my fridge! don’t ask how. Now I’m thinking it’s a mouse.

Either way, that little bugger compromised a lot of my food, I’ve failed to get him out of the house, and as bad as I feel about it, it’s time to set some traps. What would you do?

What about legal issues – that is, if Animals had rights? I happened to be the assistant dogcatcher in my Town for a time. I never had to do anything nasty, but I’m pretty good with wayward mutts. We have, unfortunately, had a number of issues with dogs attacking livestock. In these cases, the dogs are “destroyed.” What would you have us do? I’m glad I’m not in that position anymore, but the current dog-catcher is a REAL jerk, and takes no time to unholster his gun!

We, as humans, continue to develop. We need wood for homes – our need for homes will always come before our want to protect, say, the squirrels and fieldmice and deer. As an Animal Rights person, how do you feel about that? Even the biggest ultra-vegan-raw-whatever has an impact.

Obviously this is small stuff compared to seal-hunts and fashion-fur, I just want to gauge your opinion. These are issues I will always take with Animal Rights folk…Where do you draw the line??

You haven’t answered my questions but I will answer yours:

- “My ‘deal’ is coming up with solutions and compromises to protect Animal Welfare wherever and whenever possible.” – http://www.humanemyth.org/ – this is what Animal Welfare succeeds in doing!

- “Animal Rights, would rather aim for complete abolition, no matter how impossible to attain.” – I am ‘an Animal rights person’ and I know it’s impossible to stop killing animals for food. What I want, like most people who think like me, is respect for animals. It is possible to kill animals for food without causing pain to them. How? Humans are so intelligent and we still haven’t figured out yet (or never bothered – http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1883742,00.html?cnn=yes) how to do this without pain to animals? Why not introduce an innocuous substance in the food of the animals to be killed to make them fall into deep sleep so they wouldn’t be aware during the process of killing them? Obviously animals should also be allowed to live in open spaces with all the conditions to minimize their stress. In the Netherlands it’s being done… (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/258425). Obviously the Dutch are not fat jerks who just care about getting a huge steak for the least amount of money possible, even if that means the animals underwent unbelievable tortures so they could satisfy their hunger for meat!

- “reference to murdering human beings…not sure here if you mean wearers of fur or trappers” – if I had to choose between the life of those directly (because they know what they’re doing) responsible for the murder of animals because of their fur and the life of the animals, I would choose the latter… That’s because I believe animals have the same rights as humans. Or can’t I have that opinion as well? Why should you be right and not me? You didn’t answer my question about potential intruders coming into your home…You didn’t understand what I meant?

- “The overwhelming majority of humans think human wellbeing, hell, even human comfort, is leagues more important than non-human animal wellbeing.” – I can think for myself, thank you! I don’t care that the majority of humans think that way…The majority of the German society also supported the nazis during the war…Does that mean they were right!?

- “These are the same people who decide the rules for society, business, and humans’ relationship with nature.” – And take a good look around at the mess they’ve made so far!!!

- “Maybe you want to stay the hell out of the political atmosphere that truly governs these ideas and perceptions.” – You’re referring to the same people who control our lives and let millions of people die worldwide because powerful interests are on the line? Do Iraq, Tibet, Darfur (among so many others) ring a bell? Do you know malaria kills many more people than AIDS? Do you know it would be easy to erradicate it? It hasn’t been done yet because cases of malaria happen mainly in Africa. Who cares if a few hundreds of thousands of africans die each year? However, because AIDS is so widespread in rich developed countries, billions have been spent on research to find a cure and a vaccine!! What about the people who are responsible for this alleged (which has now become real) financial crisis? Are they in jail? I’ve only heard about Madoff, and that’s because he cheated powerful people. I recommend that you watch ‘Fahrenheit 9/11′ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ … (I’m not American, so judge for yourself). Maybe you’ll learn something!
So yes, I stay the hell out of the political atmosphere. I prefer to help animals directly. That way I know that I’m not donating my money to an organization that I can’t be sure it’s going to use it properly. So I do volunteer work at my local shelter which has approximately 550 animals!

- “You, and by extension, Animal Rights, would rather aim for complete abolition, no matter how impossible to attain. That doesn’t reduce the suffering in the NOW.
You ARE extremists. Because you say things like this
[...]
I’ve spoken with Animal Rights folk who have been eloquent and persuasive, calm and totally in command of their argument.” – Do I notice a contradiction here?

“But how far do you really want to go, as an Animal Rights supporter, to equate humans with non-humans?” – I want harmony among everyone…Utopia? Maybe…on this not so evolved planet!

- “You probably want to draw the line at sentient beings, right? But that’s a shifting line, we’re learning more every day about the individual lives of critters.
What about infestation issues?” – Now who’s being extremist? If for instance cockroaches invade your house you don’t obviously move out!! You’re ‘defending’ your space. On the other hand, people who build their homes in the wilderness and then get all upset because a bear shows up on their front door, are stupid! They shouldn’t even be allowed to be their in the first place…
Look, just because I’m ‘an AR’ it doesn’t mean I’m not a sensible person!!

- “Either way, that little bugger compromised a lot of my food, I’ve failed to get him out of the house,” – Have you tried reasoning with him? Share some of your food with him… kidding!

- “What about legal issues – that is, if Animals had rights? [...]
We have, unfortunately, had a number of issues with dogs attacking livestock. In these cases, the dogs are “destroyed.”” – It’s always the same thing. Animals are blamed for everything. Their previous owners should be the ones on trial, ‘not’ the dogs! If a shark kills a surfer or someone swimming on the beach, it is hunted and killed; however millions of sharks are killed for their fins (removed from the water, their fins are cut off and then the animals are thrown back into the water… bleeding and suffocating to death or eaten alive by other animals!)

- “We need wood for homes – our need for homes will always come before our want to protect, say, the squirrels and fieldmice and deer [...] Even the biggest ultra-vegan-raw-whatever has an impact.” – If humans weren’t so arrogant and consider themselves superior to all other creatures, it would be possible to use the natural resources wisely, thus causing as little impact as possible on ecosystems!

ufff I’m tired and I’ve wasted too much time already!

I hope this is “eloquent and persuasive, calm and totally in command of” arguments enough for you!!