Comments on: The Green Quote: Aerosmith’s Joe Perry On Hunting And Conservation http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/ Causes Entertainment Lifestyle Pop Culture Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:02:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Cass http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-395857 Cass Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:25:21 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-395857 I think you all have some good points, points from both sides, and probably more good points from the pro-hunting side such as Eric's, D. Miller's and Jeremy's. In my personal opinion I do not like hunting and I sometimes have a hard time respecting it -- but I think that is because I have not seen many good examples. What I don't like is seeing the enormous pride of killing a living creature, especially if the animal is killed only for sport, to hang on their wall or for fur. If it is used for food, and especially by local groups, I really do not have a problem with it. I have just seen too many pictures of hunters with a wide grin on their face, blood all over their clothes, and a line of animals in the back of their pick up truck. I guess what's ironic is that the hunters who don't "show off" their kill are the ones I don't see... and that's because they don't show off!! So it is really good to hear the good side of hunting and that there are hunters out there that do it responsibly and actually do care about conservation, nature and the animals. I think Eric has a great point that all of us do something that is harmful in some way. For me, hunting is something I don't really like, but I am not against it all together. I will not hunt but I will not protest hunters or tell someone they are wrong for hunting. I think you all have some good points, points from both sides, and probably more good points from the pro-hunting side such as Eric’s, D. Miller’s and Jeremy’s. In my personal opinion I do not like hunting and I sometimes have a hard time respecting it — but I think that is because I have not seen many good examples. What I don’t like is seeing the enormous pride of killing a living creature, especially if the animal is killed only for sport, to hang on their wall or for fur. If it is used for food, and especially by local groups, I really do not have a problem with it. I have just seen too many pictures of hunters with a wide grin on their face, blood all over their clothes, and a line of animals in the back of their pick up truck. I guess what’s ironic is that the hunters who don’t “show off” their kill are the ones I don’t see… and that’s because they don’t show off!! So it is really good to hear the good side of hunting and that there are hunters out there that do it responsibly and actually do care about conservation, nature and the animals. I think Eric has a great point that all of us do something that is harmful in some way. For me, hunting is something I don’t really like, but I am not against it all together. I will not hunt but I will not protest hunters or tell someone they are wrong for hunting.

]]> By: eric http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-386734 eric Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:46:38 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-386734 The simple fact is that those living in urban and suburban areas will never understand hunting because they lack the experience necessary to understand the workings of nature itself. When you grow up in nature, you see the cycles of consumption, you see the beautiful system at work, not on TV. Unfortunately, due to people like that, urban and suburban areas will soon be all that's left apart from a few novelty parks complete with imax theaters and coke machines. Hunters value nature for nature's sake not for some sick display for us to sit and observe. Like it or not, we are part of the cycle too. Sure, sport hunting is wrong... Sure, expensive hunting trips for the rich who don't eat what they shoot are wrong. But honest local people hunting in their local environments are on higher moral ground than those who thoughtlessly consume things, whether meat from a death farm factory or vegetables from a soil depleting mega farm. Is every single thing you own cruelty free? Does your life affect no one at all? Has nothing suffered due to your existence? If you answered yes, you're fooling yourself. How about all the nice toxic chemicals in that computer you're using to read this? I've had plenty of people wearing leather shoes tell me how bad hunting is, and I just smile inwardly knowing that they're on very shaky ground. It's like a dictator who doesn't have the cohones to kill someone face to face but will sign orders that kill millions. Summary: Hunters work toward wildlife preservation and conservation more than any one group of people and they respect the cycles of nature. The simple fact is that those living in urban and suburban areas will never understand hunting because they lack the experience necessary to understand the workings of nature itself. When you grow up in nature, you see the cycles of consumption, you see the beautiful system at work, not on TV. Unfortunately, due to people like that, urban and suburban areas will soon be all that’s left apart from a few novelty parks complete with imax theaters and coke machines. Hunters value nature for nature’s sake not for some sick display for us to sit and observe. Like it or not, we are part of the cycle too. Sure, sport hunting is wrong… Sure, expensive hunting trips for the rich who don’t eat what they shoot are wrong. But honest local people hunting in their local environments are on higher moral ground than those who thoughtlessly consume things, whether meat from a death farm factory or vegetables from a soil depleting mega farm. Is every single thing you own cruelty free? Does your life affect no one at all? Has nothing suffered due to your existence? If you answered yes, you’re fooling yourself. How about all the nice toxic chemicals in that computer you’re using to read this?

I’ve had plenty of people wearing leather shoes tell me how bad hunting is, and I just smile inwardly knowing that they’re on very shaky ground. It’s like a dictator who doesn’t have the cohones to kill someone face to face but will sign orders that kill millions.

Summary: Hunters work toward wildlife preservation and conservation more than any one group of people and they respect the cycles of nature.

]]> By: D. Miller http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-380573 D. Miller Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:59:22 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-380573 I am a hunter and conservationist. I have dedicated my personal and professional life to wildlife conservation, working as a wildlife scientist. There is NOTHING about regulated, ethical hunting that is counter to conservation. Many non-hunting conservation organizations accept and understand the role hunting plays in conservation. In fact in the U.S., hunting pays for most of conservation. In 1937, the Federal Aid in Wildife Restoration Act was passed. This law placed an excise tax (now at 11%) on all hunting related equipment that can ONLY be used for funding of wildife conservation efforts. This money (over $10 billion dollars to date) is distributed back to each state based on land area and number of hunting license sales. It is the ONLY stable source of funding for wildlife conservation. Non-consumptive wildlife users (bird-watchers, backpackers, photographers, etc.) are beneficiaries of wildlife conservation activites funding soley by hunters (a similar law is in effect for fisheries as well). Unregulated hunting and poaching can (and has) decimated wildlife populations. However, regulated hunting has NEVER caused extinction or extirpation of a species. In fact, hunting has provided reason for bringing back formerly rare species around the globe. And, protection of habitat for game species also results in habitat protection for nongame species. Some of the leading conservationists in the U.S. were hunters - Aldo Leopold, Theodore Roosevelt, and others. It was hunters that sounded the alarm bells about declining populations of animals in the U.S. and hunters that began the modern conservation movement. We owe those leaders, and hunters, our thanks for the abundance of wildlife we still enjoy today. It is impossible to explain the spiritual connection to the land derived from hunting to someone who does not hunt. Ever try to explain the love a parent has for a child to someone that has no children? It is impossible. It is not about the kill although that is the objective. Hunters understand more about the need to keep wild places wild and to sustain wildlife populations than non-hunters. In our desire to be more "earth-friendly", we lose site of the need to conserve wild places. Who cares if the world is 4 degrees warmer in 100 years if there are only rooftops and parking lots to warm up? Yet, conservation organziations composed of hunters (Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, etc.) have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on purchasing land for wildlife conservation (yes, and hunting opportunity). How much did PETA spend last year to conserve habitat? What about HSUS? NOTHING. Who is doing more for wildlife conservation? You know the answer. Hunting is not a perfect system, but it is the basis of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, the most successful model for conservation in existence. I am proudly raising my 2 daughters to hunt, fish, and fully appreciate the outdoors. Without this connection to the land (which we are quickly losing due to urbanization), future generations will simply not care about wildife and wild places, and we all lose. I am a hunter and conservationist. I have dedicated my personal and professional life to wildlife conservation, working as a wildlife scientist. There is NOTHING about regulated, ethical hunting that is counter to conservation. Many non-hunting conservation organizations accept and understand the role hunting plays in conservation. In fact in the U.S., hunting pays for most of conservation. In 1937, the Federal Aid in Wildife Restoration Act was passed. This law placed an excise tax (now at 11%) on all hunting related equipment that can ONLY be used for funding of wildife conservation efforts. This money (over $10 billion dollars to date) is distributed back to each state based on land area and number of hunting license sales. It is the ONLY stable source of funding for wildlife conservation. Non-consumptive wildlife users (bird-watchers, backpackers, photographers, etc.) are beneficiaries of wildlife conservation activites funding soley by hunters (a similar law is in effect for fisheries as well). Unregulated hunting and poaching can (and has) decimated wildlife populations. However, regulated hunting has NEVER caused extinction or extirpation of a species. In fact, hunting has provided reason for bringing back formerly rare species around the globe. And, protection of habitat for game species also results in habitat protection for nongame species. Some of the leading conservationists in the U.S. were hunters – Aldo Leopold, Theodore Roosevelt, and others. It was hunters that sounded the alarm bells about declining populations of animals in the U.S. and hunters that began the modern conservation movement. We owe those leaders, and hunters, our thanks for the abundance of wildlife we still enjoy today.

It is impossible to explain the spiritual connection to the land derived from hunting to someone who does not hunt. Ever try to explain the love a parent has for a child to someone that has no children? It is impossible. It is not about the kill although that is the objective. Hunters understand more about the need to keep wild places wild and to sustain wildlife populations than non-hunters.

In our desire to be more “earth-friendly”, we lose site of the need to conserve wild places. Who cares if the world is 4 degrees warmer in 100 years if there are only rooftops and parking lots to warm up? Yet, conservation organziations composed of hunters (Ducks Unlimited, National Wild Turkey Federation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, etc.) have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on purchasing land for wildlife conservation (yes, and hunting opportunity). How much did PETA spend last year to conserve habitat? What about HSUS? NOTHING. Who is doing more for wildlife conservation? You know the answer. Hunting is not a perfect system, but it is the basis of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation, the most successful model for conservation in existence. I am proudly raising my 2 daughters to hunt, fish, and fully appreciate the outdoors. Without this connection to the land (which we are quickly losing due to urbanization), future generations will simply not care about wildife and wild places, and we all lose.

]]> By: Terra http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-372660 Terra Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:17:34 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-372660 Here's an interesting link relating to the subject. http://planetgreen.discovery.com/travel-outdoors/green-glossary-deer-control.html Here’s an interesting link relating to the subject.

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/travel-outdoors/green-glossary-deer-control.html

]]> By: Common Man http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-370572 Common Man Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:53:33 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-370572 Joe Perry's comment is spot on. When you hunt and consume what you kill, you are in balance with a need to feed your hungry body. One can hunt and kill for sport which does not feed the body and does not use nature in a sustaining way which is wrong. You also can cook up a pot of oatmeal and eat all you've cooked up and be in balance with the need to feed your body. One can also cook up a pot of oatmeal and eat a few bites and throw the rest in the trash. Not consuming that oatmeal is not sustaining just as the person who shoots animals for sport. The only real difference here is that when you kill an animal it reminds you too much of yourself as a human. There's blood and the flesh is similar to our own, and that is for some, is too much. Yet those who say it is "wrong to kill any animal" overlook the killing of the oat-stalk that produced the grain from which oatmeal is made. The only difference is we don't see blood and plants and animals don't have souls. The true issue here is stewardship and the responsible use of the resources God has given us to sustain life. By eliminating an entire category of food-source we would then be out of balance with nature and not good stewards of the resources we have been given dominion over. Joe Perry’s comment is spot on.
When you hunt and consume what you kill, you are in balance with a need to feed your hungry body. One can hunt and kill for sport which does not feed the body and does not use nature in a sustaining way which is wrong. You also can cook up a pot of oatmeal and eat all you’ve cooked up and be in balance with the need to feed your body. One can also cook up a pot of oatmeal and eat a few bites and throw the rest in the trash. Not consuming that oatmeal is not sustaining just as the person who shoots animals for sport.

The only real difference here is that when you kill an animal it reminds you too much of yourself as a human. There’s blood and the flesh is similar to our own, and that is for some, is too much. Yet those who say it is “wrong to kill any animal” overlook the killing of the oat-stalk that produced the grain from which oatmeal is made. The only difference is we don’t see blood and plants and animals don’t have souls.

The true issue here is stewardship and the responsible use of the resources God has given us to sustain life. By eliminating an entire category of food-source we would then be out of balance with nature and not good stewards of the resources we have been given dominion over.

]]> By: hil http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-368870 hil Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:50:22 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-368870 Whoever, It depends on the hunter:) If they were hunters like my grandfather they would (provided he had an alternative to feed his family which often times he did not in the bitter winters of rural Michigan, but the near by Amish community is usually willing to share their resources if needed. :) There will be poachers of course, but the more conversationally minded hunters are often the most effective at stopping poachers since they give all hunters a bad rap :) Whoever,
It depends on the hunter:) If they were hunters like my grandfather they would (provided he had an alternative to feed his family which often times he did not in the bitter winters of rural Michigan, but the near by Amish community is usually willing to share their resources if needed. :) There will be poachers of course, but the more conversationally minded hunters are often the most effective at stopping poachers since they give all hunters a bad rap :)

]]> By: Malcolm http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-368868 Malcolm Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:37:48 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-368868 The system is out of balance. No denying it. If humans packed up and left, no eating veg, no eating meat, no roads, no cars, no houses, dams, airports, sewage systems, farms, hospitals, schools - the system would eventually find it's balance again. However with circa 6bn people on the planet this isn't going to happen for the foreseeable future. Like it or not, as Jeremy says, hunting, in one form or another has to be part of a management plan for most 'semi-natural' areas. You either let people do it as 'hunters' or you pay people to come in and do the same job, only this time it'll be termed a 'cull'. Which is more acceptable? Neither? So do you re-introduce a large predator back to the UK to control deer populations or just accept things like the bark stripping of the pine forests on Brownsea Island and lose the last population of red squirrels in the South of England as their habitat disappears? Wheels within wheels I'm an environmental adviser to the biggest conservation charity in the UK, I spend my days working on the resource and sustainabilty agenda. I spend my weekends, when I'm not with my family doing conservation work and yet I have hunted in the past and I still fish to this day. A kind of hunting no? Sure I'm not a beer hunter, I don't sit in a hide and wait for something to go by, I take no pleasure in the kill at all. I do take pleasure in being able to sustainably take my own produce from the wild in a controlled manner that ensures that one day, my son will be able to do the same. Like many cultures around the world I believe there is a spirituality behind being able to harvest foodstuffs (meat included) as 'humanely' as killing any animal can be, in a controlled and, in it's widest sense, sustainable manner. In the same way that I take pride in my garden produce, foraged blackberries and mushrooms etc etc. sorry for the barrage of text, I'm tired and have a biomass boiler to plan by 10:00! The system is out of balance. No denying it. If humans packed up and left, no eating veg, no eating meat, no roads, no cars, no houses, dams, airports, sewage systems, farms, hospitals, schools – the system would eventually find it’s balance again. However with circa 6bn people on the planet this isn’t going to happen for the foreseeable future. Like it or not, as Jeremy says, hunting, in one form or another has to be part of a management plan for most ‘semi-natural’ areas. You either let people do it as ‘hunters’ or you pay people to come in and do the same job, only this time it’ll be termed a ‘cull’. Which is more acceptable? Neither? So do you re-introduce a large predator back to the UK to control deer populations or just accept things like the bark stripping of the pine forests on Brownsea Island and lose the last population of red squirrels in the South of England as their habitat disappears? Wheels within wheels

I’m an environmental adviser to the biggest conservation charity in the UK, I spend my days working on the resource and sustainabilty agenda. I spend my weekends, when I’m not with my family doing conservation work and yet I have hunted in the past and I still fish to this day. A kind of hunting no? Sure I’m not a beer hunter, I don’t sit in a hide and wait for something to go by, I take no pleasure in the kill at all. I do take pleasure in being able to sustainably take my own produce from the wild in a controlled manner that ensures that one day, my son will be able to do the same.

Like many cultures around the world I believe there is a spirituality behind being able to harvest foodstuffs (meat included) as ‘humanely’ as killing any animal can be, in a controlled and, in it’s widest sense, sustainable manner. In the same way that I take pride in my garden produce, foraged blackberries and mushrooms etc etc.

sorry for the barrage of text, I’m tired and have a biomass boiler to plan by 10:00!

]]> By: Elisabeth Kelly http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-368853 Elisabeth Kelly Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:20:51 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-368853 I think killing is killing, but it's better he hunts it himself if he is going to eat it, wear it, etc. I think killing is killing, but it’s better he hunts it himself if he is going to eat it, wear it, etc.

]]> By: Whoever... http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-368807 Whoever... Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:41:56 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-368807 Jeremy, You make good points. However, I would like to emphasize that this global depletion of species is largely due to the action of humans. You mention that the deer population in the US is out of control, but you know better than I that that wouldn't have happened if their natural predators hadn't been hunted and their ecosystem destroyed. "How many countless other animals will die extremely slowly and painfully from disease, starvation, or unfit health through the winter months?" Well, maybe we should step back for once and let Nature do its work. Just because a certain species' population is out of control, it doesn't mean we should send a battalion of hunters to 'control' it! I would rather let Nature follow its course and balance itself without human intervention - after all, our record when it comes to interfering with nature isn't the best! "We have an obligation to be the stewards of the environment" I'm sorry, says who? And what a great work we've done so far... "The system is out of balance in a way that most of us are unable to fully comprehend" I'm sorry, again, but as a Wildlife Biology and Management student you should know better. Depletion of resources, destruction of ecosystems, over-hunting and pollution are the main reasons why 'the system is out of balance'. You don't need a degree to realize this. "I have found that most hunters see themselves as part of the bigger picture, more in tune and in touch with the natural world than most of us who live in cities and suburbs." I'm not a hunter and I live in a city. Nonetheless, I am extremely in touch with the natural world... I can even accept that some hunters are "respectful of the environment and conservation minded" (although it's a paradox that they do it by killing animals) but the fact is that most hunters just enjoy killing animals and couldn't care less about the environment (for instance do they pick up the empty shotgun shells and take them home? No!) or the animals. Hil, "So I guess my point is that hunters can be advocates for conservation, and in many ways can be strong allies to those of us that are fighting for the same cause, the preservation of the wildlands left in our country and the earth in general." Well, can you truly tell me that you believe that if hunters were told they couldn't hunt for 5 years in order for nature to rebalance itself, they would agree with it? I sincerely doubt it! I can tell you that in my country they would never accept such a thing... Jeremy,

You make good points.
However, I would like to emphasize that this global depletion of species is largely due to the action of humans.

You mention that the deer population in the US is out of control, but you know better than I that that wouldn’t have happened if their natural predators hadn’t been hunted and their ecosystem destroyed.

“How many countless other animals will die extremely slowly and painfully from disease, starvation, or unfit health through the winter months?”

Well, maybe we should step back for once and let Nature do its work. Just because a certain species’ population is out of control, it doesn’t mean we should send a battalion of hunters to ‘control’ it!
I would rather let Nature follow its course and balance itself without human intervention – after all, our record when it comes to interfering with nature isn’t the best!

“We have an obligation to be the stewards of the environment”

I’m sorry, says who? And what a great work we’ve done so far…

“The system is out of balance in a way that most of us are unable to fully comprehend”

I’m sorry, again, but as a Wildlife Biology and Management student you should know better. Depletion of resources, destruction of ecosystems, over-hunting and pollution are the main reasons why ‘the system is out of balance’. You don’t need a degree to realize this.

“I have found that most hunters see themselves as part of the bigger picture, more in tune and in touch with the natural world than most of us who live in cities and suburbs.”

I’m not a hunter and I live in a city. Nonetheless, I am extremely in touch with the natural world…
I can even accept that some hunters are “respectful of the environment and conservation minded” (although it’s a paradox that they do it by killing animals) but the fact is that most hunters just enjoy killing animals and couldn’t care less about the environment (for instance do they pick up the empty shotgun shells and take them home? No!) or the animals.

Hil,

“So I guess my point is that hunters can be advocates for conservation, and in many ways can be strong allies to those of us that are fighting for the same cause, the preservation of the wildlands left in our country and the earth in general.”

Well, can you truly tell me that you believe that if hunters were told they couldn’t hunt for 5 years in order for nature to rebalance itself, they would agree with it? I sincerely doubt it!

I can tell you that in my country they would never accept such a thing…

]]> By: hil http://www.ecorazzi.com/2009/09/03/the-green-quote-aerosmiths-joe-perry-on-hunting-and-conservation/comment-page-1/#comment-367242 hil Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:16:41 +0000 http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=19795#comment-367242 Jeremy, thank you for your comment. My grandfather was a hunter, and he was able to feed his family in the harsh rural Michigan winter because of it. Because of this experience at such a young age, as well as having the privilege of knowing some wildlife biologists that are avid conservationists AND hunters it is hard for me to say that ALL hunting is bad. Yes there are the "beer" hunters who just want to get drunk and sit in a tree waiting for a kill to come walking by. My grandfather used to sabotage those supposed hunters camps when he came across them, and nothing pained him more than to see a kill that a hunter was too lazy to claim lying on the forest floor. So I guess my point is that hunters can be advocates for conservation, and in many ways can be strong allies to those of us that are fighting for the same cause, the preservation of the wildlands left in our country and the earth in general. Jeremy, thank you for your comment. My grandfather was a hunter, and he was able to feed his family in the harsh rural Michigan winter because of it. Because of this experience at such a young age, as well as having the privilege of knowing some wildlife biologists that are avid conservationists AND hunters it is hard for me to say that ALL hunting is bad. Yes there are the “beer” hunters who just want to get drunk and sit in a tree waiting for a kill to come walking by. My grandfather used to sabotage those supposed hunters camps when he came across them, and nothing pained him more than to see a kill that a hunter was too lazy to claim lying on the forest floor. So I guess my point is that hunters can be advocates for conservation, and in many ways can be strong allies to those of us that are fighting for the same cause, the preservation of the wildlands left in our country and the earth in general.

]]>