by Michael dEstries
Categories: Animals, Causes
Tags: , .

adygil2

With the Ady Gil now resting somewhere beneath the waves of the Antarctic, the Sea Shepherd and her supporters have turned to talk of a successor — and the cash needed to make her a reality.

Already, an anonymous donor has reportedly offered $1 million towards the project — while Hollywood businessman Ady Gil, the ship’s original benefactor, threw a fundraiser last weekend at his spacious Woodland Hills home. According to Paul Watson, $170,000 was pledged in the first few hours after the incident while more was flooding in following the screening of a Sea Shepherd advert featuring Transformers actress Isabel Lucas.

But while reports keep indicating that the loss of the Ady Gil to the Sea Shepherd was somewhere around $1.5 million — the cost to replace the ship will be much greater.

We know this because of an interview the Ady Gil’s creator, Captain Pete Bethune, did with Conquest Magazine back when the boat was known as the Earthrace. The march to make his dream a reality was such daunting task, that it actually almost sent Bethune into bankruptcy.

In terms of cost, the Ady Gil 2 will already seem daunting because of one lucky break Bethune got the first time around: the two 540 horsepower Cummins Mercruiser Diesel engines were actually free. The Cummins CEO said he couldn’t sponsor the $4 million needed at the time, but instead would provide the engines, install them, and service them around-the-globe for three years. That generous offer immediately saved between $300,000-$400,000. Additionally, a couple gearboxes were also thrown in for free — again, expensive stuff.

From that, Bethune raised $1.5 million in sponsorship for goods and services, threw in $750,000 of his own cash — and took out a loan for another three quarters of a million.

As if the costs weren’t heavy enough, the project then shot $500,000 over budget — mainly due to the complexity of the carbon spars and the more than 66 layers of carbon fibre. And this is all before Sea Shepherd got their hands on the vessel and added an additional 4-8 layers of kevlar and other upgrades.

Said Ady Gil at his fundraiser this past weekend, “We intended to build a bigger, better, faster ship for our cause.”

Words like that make accountants shiver — and based on the above, it’s no secret that a second Ady Gil will probably cost more than the first. Granted, Bethune now has experience and a giant organization behind him to help — but will the money flow? Can a second boat, when the first took more than 3,000 hours of labor to construct, be ready by next year’s campaign?

We look forward to finding out.

About Michael dEstries

Michael has been blogging since 2005 on issues such as sustainability, renewable energy, philanthropy, and healthy living. He regularly contributes to a slew of publications, as well as consulting with companies looking to make an impact using the web and social media. He lives in Ithaca, NY with his family on an apple farm.

View all posts by Michael dEstries →
  • Hart

    Much of the original Ady was salvaged. With Norway claiming to ready to gear up for increased whaling, there will always be a need for boats like the Ady Gil.

    • http://www.ecorazzi.com Michael d'Estries

      Hart,

      When you say “much:, I assume you mean the electronics b/c as you can see from the photos, most of the ship’s cost is at the bottom of the ocean.

      http://media.seashepherd.org/2009-10_Antarctica/photos/100108_Ady_Gil_sinking_%28GL01%29.jpg

    • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

      Well when he says “much”, he’s certainly not referring to the vast quantities of diesel fuel that Sea Shepherd vandals allowed to spill into the pristine Southern Ocean.

      • Polluters of the Sea

        Pristine, except for the huge pools of blood and guts of whales murdered by the violent, conscienceless Japanese whaling terrorists.

      • EARTHWARRIOR117

        Wrong. All of the fuel was pumped off before they even attempted to tow the Ady Gil.

      • http://vegan--japan.blogspot.com/ herwin

        why keep arguing with a paid blogger whose only job is to write nonsense.
        to hire fake paid bloggers or fake paid customers is nothing new for japanese companies, one classic example is mcdonalds who hires 1000+ customers to line up at the opening of a new branch in Tokyo :
        http://www.tokyomango.com/tokyo_mango/2008/12/mcdonalds-hired-1000-people-to-line-up-for-quarter-pounder-campaign.html

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        If only I was being paid. After all, I am much better at this than Glenn Inwood.

        I’ll tell you who is getting paid though – Paul Watson. His yearly fundraising trips to the Southern Ocean are paying off big time. There’s big money to be made in the anti-whaling industry and Sea Shepherd has the market cornered.

      • Defiant

        Much like the vast amounts of diesel fuel that the whaling fleet has PUMPED into the pristine Southern Ocean multiple times over the last several years? And that’s in addition to the oil slicks that they have left from at least three separate accidents. Be careful of calling others ‘vandal’ when your own record is far, far worse.

      • Alissa

        Those vast quantities of diesel fuel you are referring to were removed by the Sea Shepherds prior to the boat sinking. And since you seem so worried about the pristine Southern Ocean, maybe you should fire off a nasty-gram to the Japanese for illegaly refueling their death machine in a protected area.

      • Michael

        Paul earns all his money through giving lectures, interviews, book sales and making appearances at selected event.

        Sea Shepherd is one of the only environmental/animal welfare organisations in the world made up almost entirely of unpaid volunteers. The only people who are paid are a few specialists that they can’t do without.

        Paul wants as much funding as possible to be channeled into the campaign. There is a site on the net called Charity finder shows exactly how much charity organisations earn and where the money goes. I suggest you check it out.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        This person who calls herself, “Hideyoshi Toyotomi” probably blames the United States Navy for the oil spills which resulted from the attack on Pearl Harbor.

      • Sage

        Killing for food is not murder. In that case even vegans are murderers!

        I’m sick of the radicals calling killing for food murdering. So EVERYONE who is against whaling should just stop eating!

        It just makes no sense to call fishermen murderers. Again I’ll ask; what about crabbers, cattle, pork, all life forms being killed in the name of food?

    • come si come ca

      THe IWC allows scientific whaling (which we know is all BS) and Japan exploits and absuses that (no one can argue against that.) So the IWC needs some reform too.

      Now, the fact Japan spends so much money on a dead industry in which there is no demand for whale meat is beyong me. Especially since theres so much what meat in the deep freeze. (Reports of it being peddled to schools, nursing homes and dog food have surfaced). This is an absolute national disgrace.

      Not to mention their tactics and environmental crimes (factory ship, refuelling, dumping of waste etc) in and around Anatartica.

      The the ICR / PR machine keeps repeating the same things…”Research”,”Cultural Tradition”,”Same as killing cows”,”Depleting fish stocks”,”Minke’s inhibit recovery of larger whales”… Truly a propaganda machine hard at work.

      Im sure their citizens woudl agree – theres more important domestic issues that could do with those funds? Suicide rates, uemployment problems etc etc.

  • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

    Now that he’s ineffective at disrupting the research programme, Paul Watson likes to claim that he’s costing the Japanese money and reducing their “profits”.

    Seems an awful lot like that wheel has come full circle.

    I wonder if they’ll park the next one in front of the Shonan Maru 2 too?

    • Replacement vehicle

      Seems like the Ady Gil needs to be replaced by the Enola Gay. THAT would get instant results.

    • EARTHWARRIOR117

      Don’t you have a life? If you took the ICR’s balls out of your mouth for a moment you’d realize that we’re all just laughing at your bullshit.

    • From MN, with hope…

      They were NOT parked in front of the Shonan Maru 2. They were stopped. The Shonan obviously turned to hit the Ady Gil. It was clear as the words I type. And as said in the other thread they tried to move, but were beyond the point of no return. No way the Japanese can deny it, they rammed the Ady Gil.

      Paul has indeed reduced the profits of the whalers. The whalers have stated that every time get back to count the money. The difference preventing this from going full circle is that the whalers are government funded, while the Sea Shepherd crew rely on donations. The government isnt going to cough up enough money to keep the whalers floating, but the multitudes of donations Sea Shepherd recieves is limitless. Plus the amount of money the whalers owe Sea Shepherd is enough to help bring this $5 million project to completion.

      • http://vegan--japan.blogspot.com/ herwin

        ramming the Ady Gil in the remote antarctic waters and taking the risks of people dying is a sign that SeaShepherd is too succesfull and its nothing else than a declaration of war. I think MANY people now will reach deep into their pockets and make sure the SS will have a new state of the art new boat next year to stop these dangerous and arrogant poachers.

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        Sea Shepherd successful? Please advise as to how many whales he has “saved” this year. Thanks.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Sea Shepherd has halted whaling for several day, not continuous. Whaling was halted for two days after they rammed the Ady Gil, and when the Bob Barker found the fleet whaling stopped. Theres no way I can tell the exact number, all I can tell is that Sea Shepherd is doing their job well.

        And Sea Shepherd is VERY successful. They have impacted whalers profits since they started going down to Antarctica to stop whaling. If you dont think Sea Shepherd has been successful, than how can you say ANYTHING regarding Japanese whaling?

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        One little irony you might want to consider is that Sea Shepherd’s violence has the potential entrench Japanese whaling.

        Currently the issue of whaling is largely a non-issue to most Japanese and the terrorism being inflicted upon our fleet is ignored. However if it continues to escalate, Japanese goodwill shall erode and the nationalist backlash will guarantee that whaling will continue.

        Keep in mind that the Steve Irwin and Bob Barker are only still afloat because Japan allows them to be. Very few other countries would tolerate their violence upon their citizens and assets.

        The only effective way of pursuing the anti-whaling agenda is through grassroots campaigning. Greenpeace, whilst largely realising the anti-whaling cause to be absurd, has focused its efforts on campaigning in Japan. That way, the possibility of a nationalist backlash is reduced.

        While Sea Shepherd’s violence seems romantic and exciting to you anti-whaling types, in reality it does the anti-whaling cause a great disservice. To suggest otherwise is myopic in the extreme.

      • From MN, with hope…

        The Steve Irwin and Bob Barker are only aflout because the Japanese allow them to? What a major lie! Anybody worth their weight in carbon dioxide would think that the Japanese would try to sink the Steve Irwin, not a new ship that made its Antarctic debut not even a month ago!

        Sea Shepherd is taking a direct-action approach, as opposed to propaganda. Greenpeace comes off as just some more protestors whose flyers get thrown in the nearest trash can, and their word isnt even audible here is America. Sea Shepherd gets the real attention, adn their TV show brings the word to all Americans. Why the governments of all the people on board the Steve Irwin tolerate the actions of Japan against them is a miracle! Why New Zealand isnt getting into the issue, even after the Ady Gil sunk, is a mystery.

        Once again, how is Sea Shepherd a terrorist organization!

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        It is a terrorist organisation because it uses violence against civilians to pursue its fanatical agenda.

        You are well aware of this.

      • Defiant

        “Keep in mind that the Steve Irwin and Bob Barker are only still afloat because Japan allows them to be.”

        Such arrogance!

        As you beat your nationalist drum, do remember that the last time Japan went down the “we own all the oceans and we can do what we please” road, it didn’t work out quite so well.

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        Again with the Second World War reference? Sigh.

        Anyway for future reference, as a signatory to the UNCLOS, Japan is required to cooperate in the repression of piracy as per Article 100.

        The demise of the Ady Gil should be analysed in this context. Likewise the Steve Irwin and Bob Barker should they too be neutralised.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Going by Georgina0912′s definition of terrorist, and other definitions I’ve seen, Sea Shepherd arent terrorists. And the whalers arent the only civilians. The volunteers of Sea Shepherd are civilians of many countries, and they arent paid by the government of any country, or even Sea Shepherd.

        And if the whalers even try to sink the Steve Irwin or Bob Barker than there would be international backlash, kinds that would mroe than bankrupt the whalers, and force said whalers into jail for a very long period of time.

        This is truly getting funny to read. Its pathetic how you think you’re all high and mighty. Get a real life, and try adding some logic to your one-sided state of mind. It may seem I’m one-sided, but there is no proper justification for the whalers actions.

    • Enola Gay

      The Japanese lied to the world on December 6, 1941

      In 1945, and appropriate and justified response was made to these lies [ending WW2]

      It feels like a response like this is needed again.

      Somebody should have painted ‘Research’ onto the Enola Gay & Bockscar ahead of their scientific research.

      BTW Hideoyoshi, you work for Glenn Inwoods PR rubbish campaign. So get lost.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

      I guess it goes to show you how backwards the Japanese are. To think they have to slaughter about 1000 Minke whales in an attempt to learn whatever it is they feel is so important to learn, yet you’ll notice that other countries have the skills and technology to research whales without harming them in the least.

      Also, I have to say that I find it very amusing how the japanese have the word “RESEARCH” written on the side of their glorified canoe. Is it me? …or isn’t that like a looter wearing a t-shirt with the word “SHOPPER” written on it…or a child molester wearing a t-shirt that has “BABY SITTER’ written on it. So very disingenuous.

      Ok, she who calls herself “Hideyoshi Toyotomi”…”Pseudo Intellect of the Blogs”. Here’s a question that I would like to have you answer; Explain to us why it is so important for the japanese to kill so many whales for the sake of science? …in other words, what will be the greater good? My guess is that you don’t have a clue. Personally, I believe you’re a rebel without a cause.

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        Ah he called me a girl! I’ve finally met my match it seems, both intellectually and comically. Whilst I’m tempted to pack up and give in at this humiliation, I might attempt to talk some sense into this excitable young chap.

        Right Bucky, listen up sunshine.

        Firstly, I’m not too interested in defending the scientific whaling programme. I don’t believe my country should be doing it because it’s just plain silly. I think Japan should withdraw from the IWC and openly conduct commercial whaling, just like Norway and Iceland. No more games, no more negotiating with fanatics. Just do as we are legally and ethically entitled to.

        Would that make it better for you, hmm? I suppose not. I suspect you attach this strange sentimental attachment to whales as a lot of folks around here seem to do. You think they’re special. “Just like us”, “beautiful and intelligent” or some such. You probably sit there after school and watch Whale Wars and wipe away tears of joy for Paul Watson’s self-indulgent nonsense, and then come on line and regugitate his lies. You have no interest in truth or reason. You’re an excitable little boy who thinks that opposing whaling makes him environmentally friendly.

        I don’t blame you. Paul Watson is a skilled liar and propagandist. You are his target audience and it seems his lies have found their mark.

        But what I will say is that you seem like a passionate fellow and of reasonable intelligence. Turn off the TV and do some reading and find out what are true environmental causes and how you can assist with them. Are you American? If so, your countrymen are the worst polluters on the planet who are destroying at at an unprecedented rate. Sea Shepherd isn’t going to help with that – they only chase publicity and donations by exploiting the non-issue of whaling. Find some real environmentalists and support them in their work to halt American plunder of the world. Put all that energy to some proper use, son.

        Then you really will be in the service of what you call “the greater good”.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Very nice backpedaling there girlfriend. And I must say, very creative and argumentum ad hominemesque the way you ducked my questions. Very predictable actually. I do appalogize if referring to you as a she was in error, it’s just that you give off this femanazi vibe. You actually remind me of that fashion critic, Steven “Cojo” Cojocaru…wait, you wouldn’t…..nahhhh!

        I just have to share some quotes from Cojo’s facebook so you can see what I’m talking about:

        “Thanks to theodore leaf for his probing question: I will be wearing art deco Cartier earrings once worn by the Queen of Persia”

        “blackmarket off-label botox made of spider poison”

        “i’m leaking juvaderm”

        “Happy Birthday to Brad Pitt who turns 96 years old today”

        ” I wonder if those pesky gay rumors will once again dog the Prince of Persia now that he has split from Miss Pointy Chin Vanilla Yogurt”

        See what I’m saying? It’s quite uncanny. You know, you could slip some of these quotes into your comments and no one would be the wiser. Not only that, they might even help to hold the reader’s attention.

        So, what have we learned?

        Well, we now know that Hideyoshi Toyotomi is a gender challanged man who lives in Japan, and whose verbal expressions are a dead ringer for fashion critic, Steven “Cojo” Cojocaru…class dismissed!

      • Abe

        The personal attacks against Hideyoshi are amazing. Nobody can seem to get their point across without ridiculous insults. If anyone could come up with a civil, compelling argument against his posts it would shut him up. When you resort to racist hate-filled snipes it makes you all sound like morons.

        As far as his dispersions on Americans below, I would think the Chinese are far worse polluters than us.

    • chimmychunga

      I Don’t know Hideyoshi. Perhaps the Japanese mafia will finally can the whole whaling thing. Is it worth the cost and reputation damage Japan is copping from all over the world? Doubt it.

  • From MN, with hope…

    Dont forget, its unlikely, but possible, that Japan will cough up the $2 million to pay for the original. At any rate though, the Ady Gil will be reincarnated. Since Sea Shepherd isnt a government organization than they dont have to cut corners. Cash flow keeps coming, and Ady Gil, the person, will try his best to raise more money. They probably already have something near the $2 million from donations, including my donation from last night, to help pay for the Ady Gil 2. They’ll get the money, and the Ady Gil 2 WILL be ready to take down the whalers next season, if the whalers even have enough money.

  • John

    Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the technology, We have the capability. We can make it better than it was before. stronger, faster, better…..

  • http://www.technologyslice.com.au Tech

    If the money flows in of course it can be built. But $5 million dollars is a lot of money.

  • Agent Orange

    The clear cut facts:

    - Japanese whalers are defying a global moratorium on whaling
    - They are commericially whaling under the guise of science
    - They are in the Australian Antarctic Territory without permission
    - They are illegally taking whales from a declared whale sanctuary
    - They are in the Antarctic zone operating illegally because they are carrying weapons and are refuelling & dumping waste into the ocean
    - They are in contempt of an Austrlian High court injunction on whaling in the Whale sanctuary
    - The killing methods are slow, brutal and highly cruel
    - They are taking threatended and endangered whales. Minke numbers are an estimate – no one really knows how many of them there are.

    Therefore, Japan is in the wrong on so many levels. But yet they continue to pour money into a dying industry to save face and “not be told what to do by the west”.

    • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

      Please read the following very carefully.

      - Japan is not defying the moratorium. It legally takes whales under a specific provision allowing an exception to the moratorium. It is Iceland and Norway that do not abide by the moratorium.

      - Japan is not commercially whaling. It operates a scientific research program as permitted by the IWC and utilised the meat by-product as required by its charter. It is Iceland and Norway that conduct commercial whaling.

      - Only four countries recognise the so-called Australian Antarctic Territory. Japan does not. It therefore is not legally required to gain Australian permission with regard to anything in the area.

      - Japan is legally harvesting whales in the Southern Ocean Sanctuary. It lodged an objection with regards to minke whales in the sanctuary and is therefore legally permitted to harvest them there.

      - Japan is not in contempt of a High Court ruling. They are in contempt of a Federal Court ruling. But as per my point above, it is irrelevant as Australian juridiction in Antarctica is not recognised by Japan or more countries for that matter.

      - Modern hunting methods are very quick and efficient. The IWC has stated this themselves. Whales are killed quickly and with minimal suffering.

      - Minke whales are not endangered. Nor are humpbacks.

      Any other points you’d like to have refuted?

      • Defiant
      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Not sure where psuedo “Hideyoshi Toyotomi” gets her misinformation.

        These are the laws the Japanese are breaking:

        “1. The Japanese are whaling in violation of the International Whaling Commission’s global moratorium on commercial whaling. The IWC scientific committee does not recognize the research that the Japanese are using as an excuse.

        2. The Japanese are killing whales in the internationally recognised Southern Ocean Sanctuary for whales.

        3. The Japanese are killing whales unlawfully in the Australian Antarctic Territory (Australian Law – Federal Court judgement January 2008 under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999)

        4. The Japanese are targeting fin whales and humpback whales. One is listed as an endangered species and the other listed as a threatened species. This is a violation of CITES, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora, of which both Japan and Australia are signatories.

        5. The Japanese are in violation of IWC regulation 19. (a) The IWC regulations in the Schedule to the Convention forbid the use of factory ships to process any protected stock: 19. (a) It is forbidden to use a factory ship or a land station for the purpose of treating any whales which are classified as Protection Stocks in paragraph 10. Paragraph 10(c) provides a definition of Protection Stocks and states that Protection Stocks are listed in the Tables of the Schedule. Table 1 lists all the baleen whales, including minke, fin and humpback whales and states that all of them are Protection Stocks.

        6. The IWC regulations specifically ban the use of factory ships to processy any whales except minke whales: Paragraph 10(d) provides: “(d) Notwithstanding the other provisions of paragraph 10 there shall be a moratorium on the taking, killing or treating of whales, except minke whales, by factory ships or whale catchers attached to factory ships. This moratorium applies to sperm whales, killer whales and baleen whales, except minke whales.”

        7. the presence of military/ security forces breaches the Antarctic treaty.

        8. the whaling fleet regularly refuels in the treaty zone below 60 degrees south in breach of the Antarctic treaty. In October 2008 the whaling fleet’s refueling and cargo vessel, Oriental Bluebird, was deflagged following a ruling by Panamian Authorities. The maximum fine of 10,000 Balboas (US$10,000) was imposed on the owners of the ship, Hiyo Shipping Co. Ltd, in Japan who on October 8th removed its Panamanian registration and flag. Japan has ratified an international treaty which seeks to end the practice of ‘re-flagging’ vessels in order to circumvent international environmental law.

        9. the Whaling fleet fails to submit Environmental Management Plans in case of a maritime disaster in the Treaty zone which breaches the Antarctic treaty. The Nisshin Maru factory ship caught fire in 2007 losing all power including to its engines. One crew member died. An environmental disaster was threatened, but did not eventuate.”

        http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/01/08/18634765.php?show_comments=1

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        ” Modern hunting methods are very quick and efficient. The IWC has stated this themselves. Whales are killed quickly and with minimal suffering.”

        Yes, let’s all take a look a how literally full of BS Hideyoshi Toyotomi is.

        Caution: Very graphic

        http://www.blinkx.com/watch-video/australia-japan-still-whaling/tUTYq4rzbKWekIifD7I-AQ

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LttFrXVy9iI

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        “Minke whales are not endangered. Nor are humpbacks.”

        Thanks to groups like the SSCS.

        Hmmm, come to think of it, japanese whalers aren’t endangered either.

        I can’t believe the retarded reasoning of Hideyoshi Toyotomi. The objective is to “Prevent” a species from becoming endangered”

        Here’s a person who probably waits until their car is running on fumes before looking for a gas station.

      • crass

        Love the way ‘ninja’ calls the slaughter ‘harvesting’ – strange term for scientific ‘research’

        Harvest:
        verb [ trans. ]
        gather (a crop) as a harvest [as n. ] ( harvesting): after harvesting, most of the crop is stored in large buildings.
        • catch or kill (animals) for human consumption or use.

      • Sage

        Regardless, his use of the word harvest is correct by definition. You might not like it, but he is not wrong.

  • Enola Gay

    The Japanese lied to the world on December 6, 1941

    In 1945, and appropriate and justified response was made to these lies [ending WW2]

    It feels like a response like this is needed again.

    Somebody should have painted ‘Research’ onto the Enola Gay & Bockscar ahead of their scientific research.

    • D

      I’m sorry, I think your comment is incredibly offensive. You are saying that an event that took the lives of about 25% of a civilian population in one day – men, women, children – not to mention the uncounted animals and wildlife – would be an appropriate response to the current whaling travesty? I don’t know how you expect to try and convince the masses that the killing of a whale is wrong and in the same breath suggest that the indiscriminate killing of a humans is somehow a lesser evil.

      • Gummy Bear

        Calm down D man.
        Someone said that is what was needed to end a war. Drastic action. Not banners and dimplomacy.

        Diplomacy goes no where year after year. Perhaps some direct action is needed to stop the poachers. No one is saying they need another nuke.

        What do they do to poachers in Africa?

  • boycott

    I would rather SS spend that $5M or more buying that battle ship cruiser from the military that is about to retire and just put live amunition. Enough of this. If Japan wants to keep eating whales, hunt in their own water. If they cross the border even an inch. Just sink these MF.

  • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

    But what about international law, boycott?

    UNCLOS Article 87(1) says the high seas are open to all states for fishing (e) and scientific research (f).

    The pesky law has a habit of interfering in terrorism. Bit of a drag, huh?

    • don miguelo

      Those in power can make and interpret laws how they wish.

      Was Nagasaki and Hiroshima a “Research Programme” by the US Govt measuring effects in a real world scenario? Just ask Oppenhiemer to get an emphatic “Yes!” at the time.
      (Worse, humans are certainly the opposite of endangered).
      To argue that govt-subsidized commercial whalers are conducting necessary, impartial research is more “pesky” BS to swallow than what you say Paul Watson’s entire operation is! Careful there not to notice you’re own glaring doublestandards, oh wait I forgot, in your posts, you are always right… nevermind.

      For easy reference I supply this link, for both sides here:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

      But again, bickering over the letter of the law when both sides are using loopholes is a vicious circle. You obviously care about something, it’s just not whales. Sorry if that offends you somehow but most of us here care about whales, right or wrong, somewhere your “logic can’t touch, and I’m sad for you that you cannot know that for youself.
      Perhaps the debate team, law, or right-wing smear marketing is more your thing…

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

      If that’s true, it should be open season on japanese whalers! Oh, my bad! japanese whalers are not “fish”, they’re cowards! Just as Whales are not fish, they are amazing mammals.

      • Sage

        Pigs are amazing mammals as well; very intelligent. Why aren’t you incorporating pig farmers into your fight? Do you eat bacon? Or are you a vegan? Either way you are killing in the name of food.

      • Defiant

        Pigs don’t live in the ocean, so they’re not going to be high on the list of an ocean-defense group’s species of interest list.

        Although, if I recall correctly, in the movie “Jaws”, didn’t Robert Shaw keep referring to Great White Sharks as “porkers”? But that would be the Shark Angels’ gig; they’re on a different forum.

      • Sage

        Defiant: you made a funny and I missed it! I actually don’t recall many details from that movie. I may need to revisit it! :)

  • georgina0912

    Main Entry: ter·ror·ism
    Pronunciation: \?ter-?r-?i-z?m\
    Function: noun
    Date: 1795

    : the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

    — ter·ror·ist \-?r-ist\ adjective or noun

    — ter·ror·is·tic \?ter-?r-?is-tik\ adjective

    Hideyoshi, please be more clear when you come to this blog to call the SSCS terrorists. Based on what (according to its definition) you call them terrorists?

    And boy do i wish for ONE DAY whales could speak. I would love to hear what they have to say about whaling. Who would they call terrorists?

    • Sage

      You just defined what the Ady Gil was doing the day it was destroyed. “the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion”

      Do any of the bloggers defending the anti-whalers recognize their language?

  • http://projectcamelot.org/ Whoever…

    Many of the anti-SS comments (some of them filled with hatred) only show what kind of people are the ones who defend whalers at all cost.

    People who defend torture and the death of animals are usually the same people who are glad when activists are hurt or killed! This says a lot about your character… evil people who, when your lifestyle and vision of the world are questioned, attack all of those who think outside the box and truly want to change this world into a better place.

    Sooner or later, you’ll realize that the people who you’re defending are the same people who wish to enslave you and have no problem whatsoever killing you or your family in order to carry out their plans. (= create fake terrorism so they can put into practice things like ‘the patriot act’ or make wars, create H1N1 to psychologically ‘force’ people to be massively vaccinated and thus destroy their immune system and carry out population reduction, create financial crises so they can make a huge profit, etc.)

    You obviously don’t understand what I’m writing about because your level of consciousness and awareness are extremely low. Too bad! You’ll soon pay the price for that.

    What really ‘shocks’ me though is that most of you truly think activists are terrorists (you’ve been so well brainwashed by the Illuminati that everything is terrorism to you now – the real terrorists are the bankers, religious and political leaders, CEOs of multinationals and oil companies, owners of pharmaceutical companies, the members of the Bilderberg group, and so on… the same people who are creating terrorism in order to control you with lies; and apparently they’re being very successful!) and that it’s okay to kill them, while at the same time you defend whalers who are nothing but murderers (they have no respect whatsoever for human and non-human life).
    Isn’t that a paradox? Where’s the ‘there is no excuse for violence’ argument now?

    Besides being hypocrites, zombies and liars, your level of evolution is very, very low!!

    Oh, and to everyone else, please just ignore the hideyoshi toyotomi character (who is not even a real japanese citizen – (s)he is a fake) because (s)he is obviously on the payroll of the whaling industry or the Illuminati! People are so oblivious to the ‘real truth’…

    I fear our future will not be a bright one at all if we don’t open our eyes once and for all…

    • Defiant

      Ummmm, just to keep things on track here, the “Bilderberg group” is not involved in this particular whaling issue. The group that IS involved is the Yamaguchi-gumi, which operates the ICR as a front-office for its poaching enterprise. The “Bilderbergs” and the Yakuza have nothing to do with each other.

    • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

      Oh so now the Yakuza is running the ICR.

      How do you people come up with this nonsense?

      And do you actually believe it or just sprout it to inflame public opinion?

      Pls advise.

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        I concede defeat.

        I am paid by Glenn Inwood and the Omeka Public Relations company.

        In other words, I defend whaling at all costs (much like a defence lawyer for a guilty murderer).

        I trawl around the net day after day posting counters to everythinig I read.

        My real name is Tim Robert Samson. I’m not even Japanese, but I found that Hideyoshi Toyotomi was a brave Japanese warrior that died in Osaka 1598.

        I secretly support SSCS, but hey – cash in the pocket can change anything.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        LOL…Careful, Hideyoshi Toyotomi, you’re giving yourself away…

      • From MN, with hope…

        Wow, so was your check late, because below it appears your back on the side of the whalers. I really have been fighting a (winning) battle against a paid man. Certainly makes me happier. Since you found your check though, I think I’ll still fight for Sea Shepherd.

        But as I think, a question comes to mind. Do you have any morals Tim? If I got handed a good amount of cash to say bad things about somethign I like, I would refuse. If you secretly like the SSCS as you say, than why dont you refuse the whalers money? Then a thought occurs. It is a rough economy, so if you’re trying to make enough money to keep up with the house payment and keep food on the table by doing such a simple thing, than I guess it would be understandable.

        But still, why did you lower 9/11 by saying Sea Shepherd was like the terrorists who commited 9/11? That is highly offensive to Americans, and probably others alike around the world!

    • Sage

      Your language sounds like you’re the one that is brainwashed. You are apparently projecting, literally. What you accuse others of is the very same sickness you seem to spew.

      Anyone with a decent IQ can recognize others opinions without reverting to third grade name calling. Perhaps you should practice what you preach if you want to make a valid, intelligent point while remaining respectful and respected in the same breath. Your rhetoric voice is off the charts and you’re the one apparently hoping for the worse with your crazy last sentence. Really…listen to yourself.

      btw, only weak minds would allow themselves to be used as cattle for any purpose, be it vaccination, supporting extremists of any kind, or those who think the world is in the most of dire straights.

      Anyway, it seems to me that a lot of the SS stuff is filled with racism as far as I can read, and I’m far from the only one noticing this major fault.

      Also, out of curiosity, do you eat meat? You’re calling whalers “murderers”, but what about the murdering going on here of SO many species in the name of food? And, where do we draw the line at a food source? It has been proven that plants are alive and they feel. In a form of definition, they are alive and they too are being murdered.

      Listen, please understand, I’m not being the devils advocate, I’m simply attempting to understand your position a little better.

      The bigger picture should always be taken into consideration; what is a genuine food source that you wouldn’t kill? What about crabbers, beef, pork; the real question, where should the line be drawn? It’s all a matter of opinion and is completely relative/subjective.

    • Abe

      I wonder if “Whoever” wears a tin foil helmet to keep the “Powers That Be” out of his head.

      • Sage

        :) Abe, that’s funny!

  • http://www.seashepherd.com Sea Shepherd UK

    Thank you Georgina and Bucky!
    I don’t need to waste my time on here – you are handling this very well.
    For the Oceans

    • Sage

      Apparently you can’t read.

  • http://www.100mpg.ca Keith

    Hideyoshi Toyotomi,

    When this all gets sorted, and the evidence condemns the Japanese for intentionally destroying the Ady Gil, are you going to come on here and apologize?

    Have you met Pete Bethune?

    Have you watched the video as shot from the Ady Gil?

    I have watched the videos, and the commentated Japanese versions, and I can tell you thi, there is no way Pete Bethune would have asked or allowed the Ady Gil to do what some Japanese and sympathizers claim.

    You think that anti-whaling activity will stir up some nationalistic fervour in your alleged home country? Excellent.

    Count me in on the battle against what you stand for.

    And to quote one of your pathetic videos, your culture IS dying.

    • Sage

      I hope the Japanese culture never dies, that would be a true shame. Regardless of your prejudicial remarks, you are indeed a fool to believe that ANY cultures death would be a good one…what of the whales?

  • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

    Hi Keith, thanks for your comments and questions.

    Firstly, no I will not apologise for the sinking of the Ady Gil. As I have previously stated, my position on the matter is that the Ady Gil should have been sunk. The crew of the Ady Gil had been throwing acid, shining weapons-grade lasers and dragging ropes to entangle the propellors of the research fleet. These are criminal and terrorist acts and the Japanese were well within their rights to neutralise the threat.

    Personally, I believe Japan should have used the military to do it. I also believe Japan should use the military to neutralise the Steve Irwin and Bob Barker as they too are engaged in the perpetration of terrorist and criminal acts. Why Japan tolerates this nonsense is beyond me.

    I have not met any of the Sea Shepherd crew and nor do I wish to. I believe they should be incarcerated for their crimes.

    • Defiant

      The acid you keep referring to is butyric acid. Anything with a pH of less than 7 is an “acid”. Butyric acid has a pH of 4.3 (look it up if you don’t believe ne). A bottle of Kirin beer (as enjoyed by the whalers in the mess hall of the Shonan Maru No. 2)has a pH of 3.7 as it is loaded with the dangerous chemical “lactic acid”. A bottle of Coca-cola will give you a pH reading of anywhere between 1.9 & 2.7 (depending on where it was bottled). Butyric acid is NOT particularly hazardous. Just very noxious. And your so-called “weapons grade” lasers? Seriously, where do you come up with that crap? A “weapons grade” laser would be a great hulking chemical laser that would probably be bigger than the Ady Gil itself; they’re not particularly portable. You’ve been watching way way too much television (AND letting your imagination run away with you).

      And yes, the ICR is a front company for the Yakuza. The Yakuza has said as much, themselves (don’t you read your own newspapers?).

      As for anything being “criminal” activity, I once again must refer you to the fact that the ICR AND the Japanese government have refused (that’s REFUSED) to take ANY of these matters into an international court…or ANY court that isn’t Japanese (and we know how fair-minded THEY are, don’t we?).

      And since you’re so slow to get the point, THAT is exactly what the Sea Shepherd operations have been all about…..to bring the issue into a court and have ALL of the evidence of ALL of the activities on both sides (right down to the financial trail around Japan’s so-called “iron triangle”) brought forward.

      But again, an organized crime syndicate is not going to be too anxious to have their activities brought before a court that it dosen’t own, now is it?

      • ddpalmer

        Take a chemistry class.

        The pH of a substance doesn’t tell you how dangerous it is. So your comparison is a waste of time. The concentration of the acid is what matters.

      • Defiant

        Not quite. What matters is the acid’s propensity to dissociate into hydromimum cations and RCOO anions, and the concentration of the hydromium cations is what does the dirty work. Butyric acid is what’s called a “weak acid”, which means that it only partially dissociates into H+ cations and RCOO anions; the acid, its anion and the hydromium ion are at equillibrium in soultion. A “strong acid” will completely ionize in solution. In fact, butyric acid is a stright-chained, saturated fatty acid; if you add 2 more carbons onto the chain you get the dreaded killer chemical Caproic acid….which is goat fat.

        As far as how strong an acid is, REAL scientists (not the pretend kind, like you find at Fox News and the ICR)use a logarithmic scale pKa, which is the negative base ten logarithm of the acid’s Equillibrium Constant. Or, in short easy words, as an acid’s strength increases, it’s pKa decreases. In this regard, butyric acid has a pKa of 4.82; acetic acid (vinegar) has a pKa 4.756. Lactic acid (as found in those wimpy little Japanese rice beers) comes in at 3.86 (ooooo, Danger! Danger!) Citric acid’s pKa is lower still, at 3.128. A bottle of Coke will completely dissolve a large Buick with its pKa of 2.148. Etc. etc..

        A “strong” acid will have a pKA with a negative value. This is the stuff that doesdamageto you. As far as concentrations go, you can slather a whole bottle of 10.9M butyric acid (which is as pure as it gets) all over yourself and you’ll only smell worse than you already do, and maybe get a rash if you have sensitive skin. Drop a few ml of only 1M hydrochloric acid on your hand, and you will have a serious medical problem. So lots & lots of concentrated butyric acid = bad smell, small amount of dilute HCL = trip to the hospital & skin grafts.

        I did take a chemistry class. Paid attention while I was there, too.

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        Incorrect. The chemical properties of the projectile is irrelevant. What matters is that it was thrown at all, because that is an act of terrorism and is illegal.

        No one debated the technicalities of the piloting of the terrorists on 11 September 2001. It was not the issue. The issue was that the terrorists committed an act of terrorism against civilians.

        That is also the issue with regards to Sea Shepherd’s terrorist and criminal activities.

      • Defiant

        So now just throwing things is an act of terrorism? I guess Brett Favre is going to be in Gitmo for a long time, huh?

        Also, Sea Shepherd had nothing to do with the 11 September events, and as someone whom actually served amongst others to aid the dying and suffering, and collect and catalogue body parts of the dead in that event, I am extremely offended at your continued gratuitous reference to it to stir up emotion in your factually challenged arguments over this wholly unrelated and completely dissimilar situation. Don’t do it again.

        And one more time, Hideyoshi, although I know you’ll side step the question yet again: Why have the ICR and the Japanese government refused (repeatedly) to appear in court to decide these matters? Your use of the terms “terrorist” and “criminal” are

      • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

        Correct, throwing objects with the intent to cause personal or property damage is an offence. If you are not convinced of this, I encourage you to go to your local police station and hurl bottles of acid at it and the officers. I believe the result will convince you of the illegality of the act.

        Furthermore, you seem to believe that nothing Sea Shepherd does can breach the law. This is despite them having thrown acid, shone weapons-grade lasers, rammed vessels, fired arrows, and illegally boarded vessels. What exactly would it take for you to object to their behaviour?

        It is because of apologists like you that they continue to use violence to pursue their agenda. Their violence is worsening and you should know that if an injury or fatality occurs, you will not be without some responsibility.

        I stand by my reference to the terrorist attacks of 11 September. Terrorism is a deplorable and indefensable crime regardless of how or against whom it is committed. As you clearly do not appreciate this, it is necessary to explain Sea Shepherd’s crimes through a context which you will understand. Both attacks are politically motivated violence by fanatics against civilians. Both are inexcusable. Japan stood by America when it was attacked and it seems only reasonable that the favour be returned.

        Finally, Japan has repeatedly requested that the whaling issue be decided by a court. Please check your facts, and not via the Sea Shepherd website.

      • From MN, with hope…

        When has Sea Shepherd shot arrows? They are photonic disruptors. They arent intended to cause harm. Its Sea Shepherd’s verison of the LRAD. It temporarily blinds someone, in the same way the LRAD drops you onto the deck!

        If throwing an object with the intent to cause harm, than pellet guns are illegal, pens/pencils are illegal, paper balls are illegal, all just going by what I see in my day to day life. If that is truly so, than I need to get myself arrested for throwing a foam ball at my father, trying to slightly hurt him.

        Once again, I am very offended by your comparison of Sea Shepherd to the terrorists who commited 9/11. Those people killed hundreds. Sea Shepherd has killed how many people? NONE. In the eyes of some the whalers are terrorists. Myself included. Mainly due to the Ady Gil incident.

        And when Sea Shepherd has rammed the whaler ship, they have caused more damage to their ship than the damage that came to the whalers ship.

        Once again, thank you for your useless post Tim. Spend your paycheck well.

      • Defiant

        There is a marked difference between something being an “offense” (an illegal action or otherwise), and a terrorist act. You are trying to conflate actions of questionable legality into acts of terrorism. But then again, you are merely reading off of the ICR’s talking points sheet.

        There is also a marked difference between an attack that caused the violent deaths of over 3000 people by a group of foreign nationals ON AMERICAN SOIL for political purposes, and a group of activists interferring with a Japanese organized crime syndicate’s poaching activities many THOUSANDS OF MILESAWAY FROM JAPANESE SOIL, resulting in decreased revenue for said syndicate. There is NOTHING comparable about the two events, and you disgrace yourself by even suggesting a comparison. The lives of over 3000 American citizens are equivalent in your mind to some Japanese businessmen’s diminshed profit portfolios? Are you really that amoral?

        And enough with the “weapons-grade laser” crap. This isn’t “Star Trek”. They’re using the exact same lasers that are used in rock concerts all over the world for visual effects. Any actual particle-beam weapons that have so far been developed are very large complex machines that are not the least bit portable. Again, you are conflating a small thing into an extreme chimera to bolster an illegitimate argument

        But as I said way back in my very first post, you are nothing more than a propagandist for poachers, repeating their stock talking points over and over. You show no ethics whatsoever. I am done with you.

      • ddpalmer

        Then why didn’t you explain it correctly the first time?

        And if you took chemistry and paid attention then you know that the MSDS for concentrated butyric acid says that it can cause blindness. And you would also know that if you have an unknown concentration of a potentially dangerous substance, the only smart thing to do is to assume that it is at a dangerous concentration until you can prove it isn’t. And in the US the OSHA regulations require you to make that assumption.

        So since the SSCS refuses to say what concentration they have. The only smart and safe assumption is that it is dangerous.

        That doesn’t even mention the fact that throwing glass bottles of any chemical at people is dangerous and could cause injuries and death.

      • Defiant

        @ ddpalmer: The MSDS for sodium chloride (you know, table salt) says the same thing. Some points to consider; MSDS’s are produced primarily to defer unnecessary litigation; last time I checked, the Southern Ocean Wahle Sanctuary was not under US jurisdiction, so OSHA guidelines have no relevence in this case (and if they did, the workers on the Japanese ships would have a whole laundry list of grievances against their own employers thatwould be much more immediate than having activists throwing rancid fat at them); if your issue is over broken glass being a hazard, then address that.

        And the maximum possible concentration for butyric acid is 10.9M. 1M acetic acid (vinegar) is far more caustic.

  • Sage

    So persons trying to save the minke whale (though the species is not in peril) wants to threaten war?

    Really, have a cause, be involved, have a voice, but threatening war rhetoric is completely the opposite message that should be sent.

    Watson has stated on many occasions that he rams vessels and he is quite proud of that fact. There are serious consequences when you threaten fishermen who have a right to be there. You put yourself in front of a large steel ship, you get smashed.

    I’ll say it again this is a Timothy Treadwell case, delusional misplaced energy and money.

  • Abe

    I know how to solve the whole mess.

    We need one country to step up and dominate the world. This way we would not have to worry about treaties or federal court rulings. One country to rule them all. They would set the environmental protocol. Brilliant, why didn’t I think of it sooner. After were done in Iraq and Afghanistan I will see if I can get Obama working on this.

  • http://www.100mpg.ca Keith

    Here is an essential audio clip of the Ady Gil captain Pete Bethune

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/PATTERSON–Ady-Gil-skipper-Pete-Bethune-explains-the-incident-with-Japanese-whaling-vessel-at-sea/tabid/506/articleID/11636/cat/2/Default.aspx

    Almost 10 minutes long

    Essential listening

    I have met Pete, and I know that he would not lie. His account is accurate, and truthful.

    Listen for yourself. This should get you really pissed off if you are sitting on the fence.

    To the pro-whaling folks on board, this issue is about the Japanese intentionally setting out to destroy the Ady Gil, and potentially kill the six crew members on board.

    This could be the end of whaling for Japan once the truth gets out.

  • ddpalmer

    I know alot of you feel the Japanese are lying about many issue.

    Well here is just the latest lie from Paul Watson posted on the Sea Shepherd website.

    http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/news-100113-1.html

    “We are volunteers receiving no financial benefits in exchange for risking our lives, health, and freedoms.”

    Except as a charity the SSCS has to make their tax return public. Two years ago the SSCS paid Paul Watson a salary of $90,000 per year and some of the other crew members also get a salary, like the engineer. I am not saying that they don’t deserve a salary, but his statement is one of a long series of blatant lies.

    • Sage

      *ouch* That smacks of nice research! Good job!

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        “nice research” should always be backed up by “nice sources” ;)

      • ddpalmer

        Wait you mean the SSCS which is run by Paul Watson and a news release that is from Paul Watson isn’t a good source? Or is it the IRS that isn’t a good source?

        But here is the Charity Navigator link. You know the site that the SSCS keeps talking about how they are so highly rated?

        http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=5784

        Look Paul Watson salary $91,500 in 2007. That is over 3% of their whole budget and it doesn’t include other expenses of his that they pay.

      • Sage

        Again; nice research.

    • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

      ddpalmer,

      Interesting how you have a source link to Paul’s quote, but nothing to back up your claim that Paul Watson is receiving $90,000 for protecting the whales in the south sea. I heard the Greenpeace crew members are getting salaries…could you be confusing Paul Watson with Greenpeace. You know, Paul is only on the boat for a few months out of the year. If he is getting paid by the SSCS, how do you know that he’s not getting paid for other work, like as public speaker…etc?

      • ddpalmer

        Sorry no mistake I added a link in my reply to you comment above.

    • Sage
      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        LOL…First of all ay, just because it’s on the internet, doesn’t mean it’s true…second, never, and I mean never trust a journalist who has an axe to grind with whom he’s writing about…third, I’ve read this before, and even Myles Higgins admits in the beginning of this piece, and I’ll quote,

        “As we all know financial records are what you make of them and can sometimes create more questions than they answer”

        Also, it’s also quite interesting that in the beginning of his article, Myles Higgins apologizes for an error he made in a past piece about Watson.

        I must admit, Paul Watson may be right about the level, or lack of, intelligence of Mr. Higgins. In an article, states:

        “Every day millions of chickens, cows, pigs, etc, are slaughtered to provide food for the nation’s dinner tables. Why does nobody protest this? Is it simply because the killing of these animals is done behind closed doors while seals are killed on pristine white ice where it’s harder to hide the blood?”

        Wow! It kinda boggles the mind doesn’t it? Doesn’t this guy think before he writes?

        I don’t think it takes a whole lot of smarts to realize that his statement is quite ignorant and for those who may be scratching their heads, here is the difference; First, chickens, cows, & pigs are farmed and produced for food. We have control over their population. If the world needs more of these animals for food, the farms will just produce more. Second, farmed animals are killed humanly. Farmers don’t shoot harpoons into these animals, let them struggle and bleed in agonizing pain before finally ending their life with a final bullet to the head. That is the difference!

        Oh, and by the way! Nowhere in his piece did I see it state that the SSCS pays Mr. Watson 90k/yr.

        Sorry my brotha, you’re going to have to do a lot better than that…

      • Sage

        It’s coming. I have four links in moderation.

        “As we all know financial records are what you make of them and can sometimes create more questions than they answer”

        You actually think this is a quote you should stand on? That is completely ridiculous and in my professional experience only a crook would make such an obviously crooked non-answer answer!

        If your financial records create more questions than answers, perhaps you should learn to read and be accountable!

        Every thing I’ve researched that wasn’t pandering hippie type brainwashed propaganda, clearly points to Paul Watson being a crook. Go read there have been so many investigations into this man, I’m amazed he is cocky enough to show himself. It goes to show how some people have no shame in the face of so much guilt!

        Hmmm…sound familiar, like fat cat bankers sucking up millions and proclaiming they’ve taken huge pay cuts?

        Open your eyes, you brain-washed sheep.

      • Sage

        Oh and one more quick note. I find it VERY interesting that you (subjectively) thinks that it’s okay to kill farm animals humanely, however, there is this one little group much like your group called PETA. Have you ever heard of them? See they seem to think your statement about how humanely killed farmed animals are and well perhaps you might get a bit of an argument.

        That has been my point all along. Subjective is your position based on your feelings (subjective). “Humane” treatment of mammals we eat is completely subjective. Hence your position is one of feelings; not facts.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Sage,

        “You actually think this is a quote you should stand on?”

        Dude! This Quote you’re referring to was taken from YOUR boy, “Myles Higgins” ehhhh, the link that you posted to back up your claim about Watson. I just found it humorous that he would preface his findings with that statement. That my friend is the only reason I quoted it.

        What’s funny is, essentially, you just called the author of an article, THAT YOU REFERENCED TO MAKE YOUR POINT, A CROOK. That is beyond funny. Dude! The speed-reading isn’t working for you. Try to read slower so you might comprehend what your reading. That way people won’t think you’re from Montana.

        The point I was trying to get across was that your boy, Myles Higgins, is moron!

        Comprende?

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Ok, so I think it’s ok to kill farm animals. Again, I’m struggling to get your point.

        Is it me, or is Sage coming off a bit desperate with his rebuttals?

      • Sage

        Poor Bucky, first off I’m not a dude. Secondly, Myles is not my dude, merely referencing a fellow Canadians (Watson is Canadian)opinion of someone (Watson) who is crooked.

        When my comment comes out of moderation, there is a PDF file (one of the links) that is three pages long of Watsons criminal (YES CRIMINAL) history. MANY, MANY, MANY charges, he even did time. YES.

        So you can call Myles a criminal if you like, but then you’d be the pot calling the kettle black, there is no bigger crinminal amongst us than Watson.

        But that is how your group works isn’t it?

        Are you still pretending confusion? Are my words confusing you?

      • Sage

        Poor Bucky is lost in his little world! You can’t read simple sentences…or is it that when valid points are made you revert to childish tantrums? Actually you are quite unintelligent, maybe you are like 15 and hormonal…

        That would explain a lot about your limited understanding of the REAL world. Not your slippery slope version of reality. Though I can see why you’re a puppet now…definitely not strong enough to stand on your own.

        Follower indeed! Keep up the good work Bucky! I’m sure you impress 15 year old children with your rhetoric, but not an adult, my silly friend.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Here’s an example: I reply to your comment, and you reply back slamming a quote that was from YOUR own source…as if I was trying to promote it. I reply again and you respond with, “Are you from Ohio? Persons on this board seem to think you are” What the hell is that? Then you get into some rhetoric that’s totally off point. I asked you who you were addressing in regards to “Are you from Ohio?” and what do I get for a response?

        “Wow Bucky, must a slow night for you…two post down my friend…and you want me to think you’re intelligent? Good luck with that!”

        It seems that every question I ask gets skirted. You still haven’t shown me anything that says Watson is paid 90K/year.

        I beleive that you are the type of person that during an arguement, does’t listen to a word the other person saying because you’re to busy thinking about what espersions you want to cast out of your mouth next.

        Anyway, I can’t do this anymore with you. It’s like trying argue politics with a 5 year old with ADD.

        And for the record, I’m not with any group…..peta or the SSCS. I got onto the subject quite by accident. I happened to see something on the news about this Ady Gil Boat incident, and was currious to find out more about the crash and stumbled onto this blog.

      • ddpalmer

        “second, never, and I mean never trust a journalist who has an axe to grind with whom he’s writing about”

        So we shouldn’t believe anything that Paul Watson or the SSCS say.

        Sounds like a good policy to me.

      • Sage

        Bucky is trying, God bless his lil soul, to argue with logic when in fact logic is not a part of his vocabulary!

        Is it sad that this Bucky person has lost so much credibility that I do not finish reading his posts before a I respond?

    • Sage

      Are you from Ohio? Persons on this board seem to think you are. I’ve just posted (in moderation due to links)4 links that are quite curious. I didn’t realize Paul Watson was an ACTUAL terrorist. I thought, much like the anti-whalers over the top rhetoric, that perhaps the anti-Paul Watson gang would also stretch a few facts. Not the case in the least. I must admit, I’m a bit shocked by Paul Watson’s criminal history; extensive is an understatement!

      Wow.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Sage, you can’t expect us to be mind readers. Who the hell are you talking about with the reference to “Ohio”?

      • Sage

        Wow Bucky, must a slow night for you…two post down my friend…and you want me to think you’re intelligent?

        Good luck with that!

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Sage, you really shouldn’t drink and blog. You’re not making any sense. I’m so confused by your statements, that I’m not even sure how to respond..lol. You come off like a rebelious child of hippie parents.

        Maybe if you go out and kill something, you’ll be able to relax.

      • Sage

        Bucky don’t be sad that you’re are not intelligent enough to follow my stream consciousness. It’s okay lil fellow!

        I do not have hippie parents and I do wish I had a glass of red wine in my hand, it would surely make dealing with ignorant humans a much more pleasant experience.

        Now run along and try not to hurt yourself with your limited IQ.

      • Sage

        And just out of curiosity Bucky, what about anything I’ve stated that doesn’t make sense?

        I see a few typo’s of mine; of course blogging passionately will do that from time to time.

        But seriously, tell me ONE thing I’ve stated that “doesn’t make sense” and please be specific, not your slippery slope language, dear lost friend.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Here’s an example: I reply to your comment, and you reply back slamming a quote that was from YOUR own source…as if I was trying to promote it. I reply again and you respond with, “Are you from Ohio? Persons on this board seem to think you are” What the hell is that? Then you get into some rhetoric that’s totally off point. I asked you who you were addressing in regards to “Are you from Ohio?” and what do I get for a response?

        “Wow Bucky, must a slow night for you…two post down my friend…and you want me to think you’re intelligent? Good luck with that!”

        It seems that every question I ask gets skirted. You still haven’t shown me anything that says Watson is paid 90K/year.

        I beleive that you are the type of person that during an arguement, does’t listen to a word the other person saying because you’re to busy thinking about what espersions you want to cast out of your mouth next.

        Anyway, I can’t do this anymore with you. It’s like trying argue politics with a 5 year old with ADD.

        And for the record, I’m not with any group…..peta or the SSCS. I got onto the subject quite by accident. I happened to see something on the news about this Ady Gil Boat incident, and was currious to find out more about the crash and stumbled onto this blog.

      • Sage

        Bucky: be straight and I’ll ask again :”what about anything I’ve stated that doesn’t make sense?”

        Answer this first, then I’ll perhaps, consider your future words worthy of explanation.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        lol, it doesn’t appear that a need to say anything more. You’ve made my point.

      • Sage

        Bucky, that may work for the weak minded, but not for me. Now answer my very specific question to which you’ve stated: ”what about anything I’ve stated that doesn’t make sense?”

        Are you that weak minded that you believe I’d let you slide? Stick to the facts weak mind!

  • nick

    Japanese whalers are operating illegally by targeting endangered and protected whales in an established international whale sanctuary in violation of a global moratorium on commercial whaling, in violation of the Antarctic Treaty and in contempt of an Australian Federal Court order.

    • Sage

      Then why isn’t the law of said broken laws pressing charges against those who break them?

      Answer me without slippery slope language.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Seriously, Sage, what the hell are you trying to say? Is typos?, or are you just illiterate?

      • Sage

        Poor confused Bucky…only he’d ask the obvious. Sad lil boy/man.

  • soo-lin

    That’s fine u keep picking on Paul Watson – calling him a liar, a terrorist etc etc.

    Good on you. Do we care, Does he care? No.

    He’s doing important work down there. Work that the govt of NZ/Aust should be doing. But they arent because they are cowards – and scared of upsetting almight Japan. The once almighty Japan that attacked and raped most of the Pacific region some 60 years ago. Sure feels like they are acting the part again down there doesnt it? Where is green peace in all of this? I see them on the streets campaigning – but for what exactly?

    Carrying on with their “fleet of research vessels” carrying weapons no doubt. Sure looks like they wouldn’t care if they cause injuries or deaths.

    • Sage

      Again, as well, I do not need to finish your posts as well. You’ve made your position clear in your first two sentences; you nor PW cares.

      Good Luck.

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Sage, where do you work? Let me guess… the “Redundancy Department of Redundancy” LMFAO!

      • Sage

        Bucky: only redundant when fools refuse to answer a question to which they challenged: ”what about anything I’ve stated that doesn’t make sense?”

        Look you silly lil man/boy, answer the question. You are trying, in vain might I add, to convolude your very own response to your very own “point”.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        LOL…that was a good one Bucky!

        I’ve read through much of Sage’s comments, and have to say, she’s quite the Titanic intellect … In a world full of icebergs. She should request a refund from her university.

      • Sage

        Gavin: you must have the intellect of a 6th grader as well. You nor one of your kind will ever penetrate my intellect; you’re simply not bright enough.

        If Bucky had any kind of IQ, he’d have answered the very question he put forth.

        So, Gavin dear, if you choose to side with a fool, than a fools regard you’ll receive, fully.

        Don’t hold back, please shine forth with your superior intellect as well. Seeing as you’ve already begun…and as well as Bucky, I’ll expose you to be a fool as well.

      • Sage

        Oh…and Gavin, you can pull Bucky’s rod from your mouth…

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        Ok, Sagerella, I’ve copy and pasted the answer to your question for the last time. I’ve already posted it twice, and twice you’ve ignored it. Then I must move on to escape this paradigm of moronic intellect…

        Here’s an example: I reply to your comment, and you reply back slamming a quote that was from YOUR own source…as if I was trying to promote it. I reply again and you respond with, “Are you from Ohio? Persons on this board seem to think you are” What the hell is that? Then you get into some rhetoric that’s totally off point. I asked you who you were addressing in regards to “Are you from Ohio?” and what do I get for a response?

        “Wow Bucky, must a slow night for you…two post down my friend…and you want me to think you’re intelligent? Good luck with that!”

        It seems that every question I ask gets skirted. You still haven’t shown me anything that says Watson is paid 90K/year.

        I beleive that you are the type of person that during an arguement, does’t listen to a word the other person saying because you’re to busy thinking about what espersions you want to cast out of your mouth next.

        Anyway, I can’t do this anymore with you. It’s like trying argue politics with a 5 year old with ADD.

        And for the record, I’m not with any group…..peta or the SSCS. I got onto the subject quite by accident. I happened to see something on the news about this Ady Gil Boat incident, and was currious to find out more about the crash and stumbled onto this blog.

      • Sage

        Poor Bucky, I was not the one that said PW earned $90k a year! It’s you my lil friend who is completely confused; hence lost!

        Please, try and get your facts straight.

      • Sage

        And Bucky, if you want me to believe you just “stumbled along this blog”, you’re a bigger fool than you take me for.

        Out of everyone blogging here, the Sea Shepard UK guy comes on and thanks only two of you…wow Bucky, you must feel really special. Seriously…you’re a fool!

      • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4 Bucky Goldstein

        If you would pay better attention, I wouldn’t have to spell it out for you. “ddpalmer” was the one who made the claim that PW was receiving a $90,000/year salary from the SSCS, I responded by mentioning that he didn’t give any source link to back up his claim….and you responded:

        Sage, January 15, 2010 at 12:58 am
        Ask and you shall receive!

        http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/higgins100705.htm

        Ring a bell in that little head or yours?

        I reaaly can’t believe I’m wasting my time conversing with such a nit wit such as yourself.

        This will be my last response to you. I look forward to reading your pathetic sophomoric response. Good luck!

      • Sage

        I thought you were through Bucky? Weak.

        Anyway, I was merely dropping in a link, one of many I will use to show that Watson is a crook. So poor Bucky boy, again, I wasn’t the one that said Watson earned any revenue…I know it’s hard to follow, but try and keep up.

        I love how truly ignorant you all are; and even more over, how you make yourselves look MORE foolish with every word dropped!

        Bucky…please keep responding to prove just how bright of a warrior you really are. You know, it’s funny, I can see how your group is socially foolish…just look at you fools posting away, even at your own peril. Terrific job!

  • dogs out

    Hideyoshi,

    I see you post trash everywhere (La Times etc).

    A paid pathetic propaganda merchant! Do you actualy have any useful opinions? Didn’t think so. Yawn.

    • Sage

      hehe…you’re the lost one. Not Hideyoshi!

      Pathetic?…look in the mirror!

  • http://www.100mpg.ca Keith

    Nothing wrong with a few paid experts in the mix. Hello, do you expect them to live on nothing? Let me guess how much that NZ media relations dweeb makes.

    Now go and get some real crud.

    Some people.

    • ddpalmer

      Can you read English or are you stupid all the time.

      I said I had no problem with them getting paid.

      I had a problem with Paul Watson lying about them all being unpaid volunteers.

      Nice try at deflecting the issue.

      • Sage

        ddpalmer: they may be getting upset due to the fact you may be earning more than them…just sayin!

  • Defiant

    And now I’ve discovered that all this time I’ve been arguing with some whitebread business school student from Ohio. I feel so dirty now…

    • ddpalmer

      Are you talking about me?

      Sorry you are almost completely wrong. I currently live in Ohio working for a Lake Erie shipping company. But I am originally from South Africa.

      But obviously you judge people by their color and job. You know there are some special terms for people who do that.

      • Defiant

        Unless you’re posting under more than one pseudonym, no I wasn’t referring to you. Don’t be so vain. And who said anything about color? “Whitebread” is a term meaning manufactured, flavorless & stale. As you say you are from South Africa, I will understand that you may not have heard the term very much and/or it might have a different meaning in such a racially polarized country.

        But I’m sure that Tim knew what I meant…or at least at whom it was directed.

      • Sage

        ddpalmer” don’t trust these freaks…believe nothing they say. Life is too short to become emotionally involved with those whom trade with terrorists.

      • Sage

        Oh…he’s (ddpalmer) is not vain; you tracked him, not hard to do in this day and age. Don’t be coy liar…”Unless you’re posting under more than one pseudonym, no I wasn’t referring to you. Don’t be so vain.”…who else would you be referring to?

      • Defiant

        “Hideyoshi” is the person I’ve been arguing with for a while now, and that’s whom it was intended for; you and ddpalmer are recent arrivals to the debate & you haven’t crossed over any lines yet with me (you’re just on the other side of the argument); I think it’s a matter of where my posting was placed (& I don’t have any control over that) & ddpalmer got caught in the crossfire.

      • Sage

        Defiant: On most terms I tend to agree with you. What I wish is we could actually all come together…I personally cannot stand the thought of of any creature struggling for breathe…truly. It reminds of the time I had to bury Lucy (a name I gave her). She had been hit and left for dead on the side of the road. Some asshole just left a beautiful dog for dead. I saw her on the way home from shopping; at first I thought is was a puppy.

        I turned around,got out of my car…there she was… and her face was barely off the road, she was paralyzed…breathing…her face just inches from the roadway. Bloody and paralyzed.

        I had to put a bullet in her and bury her. I’m not a particularly religious person, but I prayed with Lucy moments before…then the inevitable…I buried her on the property.

        I would never advocate killing…EVER. I’ve PERSONALLY buried too many innocent creature. I don’t give a damn about mammal, single cell, or insects…all life is just that…life. All deserving the same respect.

  • Sage

    Feed Sheep Feed:

    http://www.seashepherdlies.com/

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/outposts/2009/10/whale-wars.html

    http://www.icrwhale.org/eng/history.pdf

    http://rewilding.org/rewildit/18/international-whaling-commission-update-paul-watson/ This article is in his own words of his acts of violence. Are you people COMPLETELY blind?

    Seriously, I great deal I’ve just researched in only a matter of an hour or so on Watson makes him look like a complete thug. An ocean bully. Not even allowed at respected international meetings due to all his threats of killing people. WOW. Wake up sheep and smell the whale (Paul Watson) blubber!

    Seriously you all sound completely crazy and a MAJORITY of the world thinks you are crazy. You are either brainwashed or ignorant fools.

    Blind Sheep Blind!

    • Sage

      what sheep…no response? Facts gotcha confused?…like Bucky the great intellect?….

      • Mr. Sheep

        Behehehehehehehehehe!

  • Sage

    I want to say for the record: I am all for preserving all manner of life, but hell, even the definition of “life” is subjective. I personally feel that advocating/perpetrating violence against other humans in the middle of the ocean is dangerous and stupid. I’m sure the there are plenty in your group who would die for whales, but do you think one or two persons deaths will make the whalers look bad or your group look bad?

    I can tell you, your group. You are directly putting people in harms way, deliberately taking a chance at being killed, most especially when you are the aggressor, which is how most of the world sees you, even if they too want whaling to stop. Most people do not advocate violence and I see this group as quite violent and quite racist as well, which is horrible.

    What’s worse is some of the followers really sound brainwashed. It just leaves one feeling as though there is no real integrity within the group.

    Listen; I made my ex-husband turn my car around (he was driving and we had three nieces in the back seat) one night because I saw a wounded frog…no joke! At first he refused, but I steadfastly insisted and he gave in. We owned 6 acres, I nursed that frog and returned him to the wild. I have hand fed 6 baby birds over 4 different spring seasons and released them back to the wild. Even tried saving a mouse as a “Christmas miracle”…I know, crazy right? I’ve hand caught a snake in the middle of the road and put it on the property so no one would kill it!

    Let us not even get into the turtles I’ve risked my butt for to get out of the middle of the road. Dogs & cats…hands down rescued many, I have three to this day, from the side of the road! Luckiest dogs in the world practically!

    However, I’m not going to put other persons lives at risk in the middle of an ocean for a whale population that is not in danger of becoming extinct due to whaling. To me, there is no logic in that, just life threatening danger.

    Yes, I’m a woman, so you can stop calling me brother! :)

  • CrazyHorseRides

    The Eco-turdorist are so reactive. They won’t stop to think that they could buy a small fleet for the money they wast on this useless POS. They only ones impressed with their boat is them.

    Ze SS might as well put a bulls eye right where the last got it! Cause! Is going to happen again.

    Watson has made a career leading people around by their nose. Anybody notice that nobody stays around for long. He burns his bridges and uses the whales and those that love them to his own end (himself).

    Watson sucks at two things “Poetry”, and “Saving Whales”.

    Sheep, get ready for shearing cause your about to get fleeced by mayby the greatest charlatain of all time.

    • Sage

      ahhh…crazyhorseridesagain…sheep are asleep and abide the great deep ignorance that sleepy sheep reap.

  • http://www.100mpg.ca Keith

    Yawn.

    Seems the earthrace.net site has been hit again, possibly as before, intentionally. Will try to find out this weekend. There were some good links there too. I think I’ll use a new website to post and host the content.

    Again, for those who missed it, Pete Bethune audio interview:

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/PATTERSON–Ady-Gil-skipper-Pete-Bethune-explains-the-incident-with-Japanese-whaling-vessel-at-sea/tabid/506/articleID/11636/cat/2/Default.aspx

  • Sage

    What I’ve learned about the PW followers in a weeks time:

    1. They have shit for facts and cannot back up their arguments with one genuine fact.

    2. The very thing they accuse others of are the very things they themselves are guilty of; yes, they project the hell out of everything.

    3. PW followers are indeed sheep. I’ve attempted on several occasions with several post to gain real results within conversations, and they’ve given zero solid fact or argument. AT BEST THEY REVERT TO THIRD GRADE TACTICS OF RACIST NAME CALLING AND COVOLUTING CONVERSATIONS.

    4. They are racist.

    5. They are indeed lost sheep for a lost cause. If they wanted to bring forth real effort, they’d remain dignified and allow the facts to speak for themselves; however, considering their facts are merely opinion, they lose on every front.

    I think they should stick to smoking pot and leave the real world issues for those of us whom have the intellect to handle such said causes.

    You Are Merely Sheep

    • Gavin MacQueen

      What I’ve learned about Sage in about 20 minutes:

      1. Sage thinks anything she finds on the Internet is a fact, but everything a PW follower finds on the Internet is shit. This would indicative of Sage’s arrogance.

      2. Sage is a hypocrite. She accuses PW followers of the very thing she is guilty of doing herself. Here are some examples:

      She makes these statements:

      “Anyone with a decent IQ can recognize others opinions without reverting to third grade name calling.”

      “If they wanted to bring forth real effort, they’d remain dignified…”

      Ok, now let’s recite some quotes from Sage:

      “Open your eyes, you brain-washed sheep”

      “Actually you are quite unintelligent, maybe you are like 15 and hormonal…”

      “Sad lil boy/man.”

      “Look you silly lil man/boy”

      “Oh…and Gavin, you can pull Bucky’s rod from your mouth…”

      “Wake up sheep and smell the whale (Paul Watson) blubber!”

      “Seriously you all sound completely crazy and a MAJORITY of the world thinks you are crazy. You are either brainwashed or ignorant fools. Blind Sheep Blind!”

      “You Are Merely Sheep”

      Yes, Sage just reeks of “Dignity” I’ve had conversations with grade school kids that showed more decorum than Sage.

      3. Sage is what us bloggers call a “Cherry Picker”. You’ll see many refute her statements and state their cases backing them up with their sources, but when she responds…that is, “if” she responds, she conveniently picks and chooses her rebuttals and ignores the issues that she is unable refute.

      Too much for me to copy/paste here, but if you browse this blog, you’ll notice there are some strong cases being presented against the Japanese Whalers. Yet not a peep out of Sage. This is because Sage lurks in the realm of the infamous “gray area” …these are issues that are hard to prove one way or the other. Sage will then attempt to back up her statements wielding links to sites that are obviously biased and spin anti SSCS propaganda.

      So there you have it…what I learned from Sage in about 20 minutes.

      • Sage

        Your attempt to discredit me is a lost cause. You and your kind could never shut me up nor change my position. I actually operate from facts unlike your kind.

        Propaganda and rhetoric is the way your kind roll. Lies, lies and more lies. I no more trust one word that rolls from your finger tips as truth, justice or any other form of dignified argument.

        Your are just angry for the fact when your lil crew members threw stones at me…I threw them right back. I will always defend myself.

        If you think you made any kind of a valid point against me, you’d just be lying to yourself; oh wait…that is what you all do isn’t it?

        Good luck with your deceitful life!

      • ghostrider

        Sage, it sounds like gavin really struck a nerve there…I hope he didn’t make you cry…

      • Sage

        I’ve eaten little boys like you and Gavin for lunch. It would take much, much smarter men than the ones I’ve encountered here to even begin to affect me on any emotional level.

        Watson followers are sheep, and sheep are weak, not to mention easy prey.

        I dare say I passed their IQ’s in the 4th grade. Even their level of reasoning is weak and cannot hold a fact to fact debate without convoluting (convolute – practice sophistry; change the meaning of or be vague about in order to mislead or deceive) conversations. Let alone the amount of racism by Watson followers is off the charts. I personally think they all should just stop blogging, it shows their lack of intellect and original thought; mindlessly using the same rhetoric over and over…it;s kind of said and completely brainwashed activity.

        Silly, lying sheep.

    • Hideyoshi Toyotomi

      Gavin, you say that Sage is hypocritical for questioning the validity of “evidence” provided by Sea Shepherd apologists. But her stance is not without merit.

      Sea Shepherd and its sympathisers represent the very extreme of the whaling debate. Its position is ideologically based and does not rely on science, fact or reason to justify its fanatical actions. Indeed, its criminal founder and spiritual leader, Paul Watson, has specifically supported and encouraged the use of deceit and misinformation to support his agenda. He has a long and unashamed history of telling lies.

      Therefore, it follows that Sea Shepherd followers may be inclined to gather their information from sources that are without factual basis – including from the master propagandists themselves, Sea Shepherd. Thus, it may be concluded that much of what is sprouted in the defence of Sea Shepherd’s criminal actions is based upon fabrications and fallacies.

      Q.E.D.

      • Sage

        Here is a simple fact about these fools; they are brainwashed and no amount of truth and fact can change their weak minds; hence my term sheep for them.

        I eagerly await the outcome of this Ady Gil business in the laws eyes; which WILL not bode in the anti-whalers favor. What is more sad, is they actually think it will lean in their direction. The real truth is they are a nuisance on our government and Watson will not receive respect from our government leaders due to his criminal nature and PAST.

        There is the SIMPLE truth.

      • bitter old man

        This Hideyoshi Toyotomi guy is criticizing others for deceit and misinformation when he misrepresented himself to everybody right from the very start? And has been basing all of his stances on material produced by the ICR and then criticizing anybody else about using sources with no factual basis?

        The ICR has,in the last 20 years, produced only 1 (one….as in less than 2 but only slightly more than ZERO) peer-reviewed papers, and it had nothing at all to do with “lethal research). Unless you’re working for Rupert Murdoch, no peer-review = no legitimate science.

        Fabrications and fallacies? You lead the pack on those, mate. You have NO credibility. You’ve seen to that all by yourself. Stop wasting column space, you dishonest and viscious little troll.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      Sage, I have one word for you “Midol”.

  • Bucky GoIdstein

    Gavin, great observation! But let’s really break it down and get to the mechanics of what makes Sage tick…

    Sages fallacious reasoning seems to occur in the following pattern:

    I have my position, Sage has her position.
    Sage disregards certain key points of my position and instead presents her superficially-similar position. Thus, Sage’s position is a resulting distorted version of my position which she sets up in several ways, including:

    Presenting a misrepresentation of the my position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that my actual position has been refuted

    …or by quoting my words out of context, i.e. choosing quotations which are intentionally misrepresentative of my actual intentions
    …or by presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person’s arguments – thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position(and thus the position itself)has been defeated
    ….or by, last, but not least, oversimplifying my argument, then attacking her oversimplified version.

    This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.

    So, I’ve concluded that it’s a complete waste of time debating with her. It’s like trying to argue with those nuckleheads who believe we didn’t land on the moon. No matter how much proof, facts and reasoning you have, nothing will change their feeble minded thinking ~ QED-MF!

    • Sage

      What a sad display of nothingness. You really think you’ve stated anything important.

      1. State real facts about the whaling industry; not your brainwashed rhetoric over and over.

      2. Speak with intelligence; I’ve long given up on any real intelligent debate in regard to Watson followers; you’re following a KNOWN crook.

      IF YOU WANTED TO CREATE ANY REAL CREDIBILITY, YOU’D HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED WATSONS CRIMINALITY, HOWEVER, YOU’VE NEVER ONCE ADDRESSED IT EVEN THOUGH MANY OF US HAVE PUT IT OUT THERE.

      Now, how can anyone of any intellect or moral/ethic caliber accept anything you say as truth, when in spite of many negative facts about your cause you all refuse to address them. The fact you lie about the Minke Whale population. The fact you refuse to acknowledge Watsons criminal mentality, which apparently you all support, and the fact whale is a food choice by another culture that you do not agree with, yet you attempt to make the Japanese look evil for their food choice. You all are idiots…TRULY.

      Further more; I hope the justice department charges who ever was at the helm of the Ady Gil at the time of the “accident” for possible manslaughter charges; it was not the Japanese who puts the Ady Gil crew in danger it was the person controlling the Ady Gil!

      If your weak minds believe for one second you are not at fault; well that just proves my position in the first place, brainwashed boobs!

      So in short, you idiots and your rhetoric do one thing and one thing only; make yourselves look more ignorant with every word you drop in your defense…and you could never, never cause me to cry; mostly I laugh…laugh at you sheep.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Damn, Sage! You’re so SEXY when you’re angry! Grrrlllllll!

      • night owl

        geez SAGE, what has got a bee in your bonnet? Can I hear something of value, or 1 decent point from you without the emotional, personal offensive? No, not this time around.

        How did you manage to waffle so much anti-SS stuff? Where do you get it from. Or are you part of Inwoods omeka PR propaganda circus? You and ddPalmer and Hideyoshi Totomo. All on the ICR payroll in some form?

        The fact is, Ady Gil will be back.

        “With well over 9,000 minke whales killed in 22 years and no useful data produced, Japan’s so-called ‘research’ in the Antarctic is an
        international embarrassment.”

        How is it they constantly change their “story”. First it was scientific whaling, then they admitted it is sold at markets for food. Then they say that whales eat into valuable fish stocks, now they are saying the minke whales prevent the recovery of larger whales because they eat too much krill. Like WTF?

        It’s ICR propaganda out of control.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        “Further more; I hope the justice department charges who ever was at the helm of the Ady Gil at the time of the “accident” for possible manslaughter charges; it was not the Japanese who puts the Ady Gil crew in danger it was the person controlling the Ady Gil!”

        Sage, Sage, Sage, it’s quotes like this that are getting you into trouble. Even Stevie Wonder could watch the video of the collision and clearly see that the cowardly whalers intentionally crashed into the Ady Gil.

        Maybe you need to take another look:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OAe-V0z2DU

        And you say we ignore the facts. Wow! No wonder people are laughing at you.

    • Sage

      ps from you ramblings, you sound like you might have a bit of an addiction to something; you might want to look into that. Seems like your brain is turning into jelly from all the drink, most especially if you believe the crap your hawking! sheep!

    • Bucky Goldstein

      Oh dear, this is awkward.

      Sage,

      I’m afraid I have confession to make. That last comment I posted? Well, the fact of the matter is that I set you up…and you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

      Please…let me explain. With more than enough time to observe you on this blog, I had come to the conclusion that it really didn’t matter how informed, how intelligent, how right anyone was who opposed you on this blog…you were always going to be RIGHT.

      Well, this just SCREAMED of an opportunity to set you up and put my theory to the test. It wasn’t difficult to recognized that you’re style of arguing was classic “Straw Man”. I was just about to call you on it, but stopped myself because I knew without a doubt that you would just deny and refute it with one of your sophomoric, condescending rants.

      That’s when a light bulb went on. I thought to myself, “What if I went to Wikipedia and copy/pasted the explanation of the “straw man argument” into my comment and edited you & me into the context with the intent of having you believing that it was written by me.

      My plan was to get you to refute an iron clad definition, a definition which was not written by me, but written by a culmination of experts, published on the highly respected and credible source, “Wikipedia” Then I could really and truly, with out a doubt, make a valid case against you — and finally show you for who you are.

      See for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#Reasoning

      My hypothesis entertained three possible resultants:

      One: My post makes perfectly good sense to you and your response is intellectually honest, recognizing that indeed I had correctly had you pegged as a “straw man” debater.(yeah right, and Osama Bin Laden goes Christmas caroling, cave to cave, during the holidays),

      Two: You suspect that my post is a trick and call me on it…(no bet’s placed on this one)

      …Or, Three: My post goes right over your head, appearing convoluted to your level of intellect…and then in a flustered burst of estrogen, you respond with one of your typical condescending rants.

      Needless to say which one you fell into.

      …Speaking of flustered burst of estrogen and condescending rants. I do believe I feel another one coming on… ;)

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Sage, how’s the weather up there in Vancouver, BC?

      • ddpalmer

        “…but written by a culmination of experts, published on the highly respected and credible source, “Wikipedia”…”

        That is really a pretty funny statement. Do you really believe what you said?

      • Gavin MacQueen

        In some cases the articles on Wikipedia may be written by people with nothing more than a mere interest in the subject and yes, the accuracy could be questionable. But what’s great about Wikipedia, is that the articles written on there evolve, and the more time that passes, the more accurate the article becomes. This is because the wiki mediators and other writers scrutinized that which is written and will call you to the carpet on anything that is sketchy or controversial. What you write on there has to be backed up by a “citation” which points you to a source. Eventually, the articles do in fact reflect the knowledge of those, which are experts on the subject, whether it happens directly or indirectly. So essentially, Bucky is correct. …But then you have those who want to split hairs…

      • Sage

        Only idiots would use Wiki. Perhaps that why you’re so familiar!

      • Robert P. Costello

        Hi Sage,

        Can you post something useful in the future. Thanks in advance. Have a great one! xoxox

      • Gavin MacQueen

        A Dell Studio XPS 9000 PC…$1,200

        A The Dell UltraSharp U2410 24 inch Widescreen Monitor…$749.95

        A high speed internet connection…$35.00

        A Comfy Ergonomic Computer Chair…$549.00

        Witnessing Sage getting owned on a blog, then desperatly trying not to respond with a predicted condescending rant, only to make an utter fool out of herself by retorting with a retarded statement in the her first sentence, then totally contradicting herself in the next…PRICELESS!!

        Either Sage is a liar, or she’s an idiot.

        Sage posted: “Only idiots would use Wiki. Perhaps that why you’re so familiar!”

        Let look at her first line, “Only idiots would use Wiki.”

        This line pretty much speaks for itself. Sage clearly states that she believes that anyone who uses Wikipedia is an “idiot”. Not to mention the fact that she also probably insulted about 90 percent of her fellow bloggers.

        But now let look at her second, incriminating line, “Perhaps that why you’re so familiar!”

        This line is clearly indicative of her using wikipedia often. How else could Bucky’s posts sound so familiar unless she frequents wikipedia?

        Therefore, using Sage’s own reasoning, Sage must be one of two things: A “liar” or an “idiot”.

        You got to love logic! Well, unless it bites you in the ASS…

  • dogs out

    Hideyoshi,

    I see you post trash everywhere (La Times etc).

    A paid pathetic propaganda merchant! Do you actualy have any useful opinions? Didn’t think so. Yawn.

    Sage,

    See above comment. You are basically the same.

    Two peas in a pod. Not one decent argument from either of you narrow minded clowns.

    Go eat some bluefin Tuna – oh hang on, Japan has almost made them extinct.

  • Billy Jean is my lover

    This must be costing millions of tax payers dollars. Millions and millions. No cutbacks because of the GFC? All for what? Some face saving

    for a dying industry where there is zero demand. Unbelievable.

    Last season the Japanese fleet captured over 300 female whales, 63 percent of which were pregnant.

  • whiplash

    Remember when the Australian customs and fisheries vessel went down there to ‘monitor’ the whale slaughter? Remember how they discovered

    Japan was taking pregant whales, baby whales (calves) etc etc?

    Their response was to get good data a range of ages and sexes was needed in their study.

    Just like the banners they hold up “We’re examining the stomach contents”, “We’re doing research”

    What about the study that found they hasd been harpooning Blue, Sperm and Humpback whales…

    Complete and utter scumbags. Boycott Japanese products.

  • From MN, with hope…

    Personal insults and such that I am seeing isnt helping ANYBODIES cause. When you lower yourself to the level of those who say bad things about you, you lose creidibility. I try to post credible facts, and the only time I really lost it, and started insulting Hideyoshi was the first time he degraded 9/11. His comment was in bad taste, and he continues to degrade 9/11, but I dont resort to personal insults. All across the web people are debating whaling and Sea Shepherd, and most are insulting the Japanese for being such horrible people, and then the pro whalers come back with another insult. Endless cycle. Making a whole post insulting one person isnt in the best taste, and insulting how smart they are, and such just isnt helping anybody.

    This post is meant to try and mediate, and relax. I know it may prove to be useless, but the hate that here is just incredible! We all have our different opinions, thats what makes people who they are. We all feel strong about our opinions, and when others say bad things about our opinions, we want to come back and insult them. All I’m saying here is that all of us will hold our opinions, but insults wont help you or what you support.

    This Ady Gil thing is out of our control. Nobody here can nor will be able to do anything about this. Its just out of our control.

  • dynamo

    I agree MN

    Then that fake Hideyoshi character started with “Terrorst scum that should be dispatched by torpedoes” which set a precedent…

  • bitter old man

    It’s hard not to feed the trolls, sometimes.

    • kyodo corp

      I’d call hideoyoshi and ddpalmer web blogging trolls that spread their lies, filth and propaganda everywhere.

      • ddpalmer

        So anyone that disagrees with you is a troll and any fact you don’t like becomes a lie. Nice world you have built for yourself there.

        But the facts remain that the international agreements in place with regards to whales allow what Japan, Iceland and Norway are doing. And the only way to change those facts is to convince the governments involved to change the agreements. Harrassing the whalers will not change the laws.

      • scooby

        ddpalmer,

        Yeah I think you have a narrow slanted view on this whole whaling thing.

        Govt’s do you to change, I agree. But they wont. It’s all about trade and economics. Is it worth upsetting Japan over whales which might damage trade relations etc and cost billions?

        I think if Japan is going to resort to that, then it shows how immature they are and that they are used to getting their own way (spoilt brat?).

        What if Japan butchered children? Should we ignore it? Should we put pressure on them? Should we throw everything we have at them? What if it harms relations?

  • welldoneson

    $5 Million? I wonder how long the Ady Gil 2 will last?

    If the captain as as much a stupid douchebag as Bethune was in the
    1, I doubt if it will last two weeks.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      Now that the SS knows what stupid acts of violence the “douchebag” whalers are capable of, I’m sure the SS will never lose another Ady Gil.

    • ddpalmer

      You realize that is the same amount as the government subsidy that the ICR gets. Of course it represents less than 0.0001% of the Japanese economy but over 50% of the SSCS donations.

  • Pingback: Ady Gil 2: Captain Pete Bethune Hints At Design Of Next Boat « ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip

  • night owl

    That facts are the Japanese are the terrorist scum bags down there with their high tech ships carrying on like victims as usual. oh how brave they are killing whales with explosive tips (how traditional) and having to deal with eco-terrorists on the high seas. Guess what, you butchers are illegally whaling and should be dispatched to the sea bed.

    mrs ddpalmer – you are rotten to the core.

    • ddpalmer

      Don’t know what you think is high tech about the Japanese ships. I thought the Ady Gil was the high tech ship.

      Explosive tip harpoons, which were developed in Norway, are what is required under the IWC regulations except for indigenous whaling.

      They are not breaking any laws. They are in full compliance with all applicable treaties, laws and regulations.

      • dogs out

        That claim was probably made in response to Japans claims that whaling is cultural, a cherished tradition.

        I understand the coastal whaling thing which was done possibly hundreds of years ago in one small coastal village. That doesn’t mean the whole of Japan can say that killing whales is cultural. As we all know, commercial whaling started after WW2.

        It’s like saying it’s in Australia’s culture to slaughter endangered Dugons/Turles. Even though a small group of natives are allowed to take some every year.

        Would you call an armed fleet of Whaling vessels high tech? I’d say they are more modern than a leaky wooden boat. anti-boarding fences, LRAD, water cannons etc etc. They are well prepared for war almost.

    • Sage

      “That facts are the Japanese (insert anti-whalers here and remove Japanese) are the terrorist scum bags down there with their high tech ships carrying on like victims as usual”

      Um…you just described what your group is doing…that is the exact sentiment your group is claiming; even calling the whalers murderers against your crew; except for one small FACT, the Ady Gil put itself DIRECTLY in front of a much bigger boat. The AG bullied the wrong fleet on that day.

      • dogs out

        gosh Sage, If the Japanese shot your dogs through your backyard fence and dragged them out half alive and ate them but put up the facade of ‘Scientific Research’ – you’d be ok with that? After all it was perfectly legal right?

        Even though they trespassed and broke laws – thats ok petal.

        Don’t you want the whales to be left alone from the killers?

      • Enola Gay

        That’s fine u keep picking on Paul Watson – calling him a liar, a terrorist etc etc.

        Good on you. Do we care, Does he care? No.

        He’s doing important work down there. Work that the govt of NZ/Aust should be doing. But they arent because they are cowards – and scared of upsetting almighty Japan. The once almighty Japan that attacked and raped most of the Pacific region some 60 years ago. Sure feels like they are acting the part again down there doesnt it? Where is Greenpeace in all of this? I see them on the streets campaigning for donations – but for what exactly?

        Carrying on with their “fleet of research vessels” carrying weapons no doubt. Sure looks like they wouldn’t care if they cause injuries or deaths.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Whatever, but would you have called her on it?…that I doubt very much! Both you and Sage have been found to be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest!

        Sage Posted this 1/20/2010 at 1:17 am:

        “Oh, just FYI, I haven’t actually read any long post rebuttals about me/to me due to the incessant amount of jibberish and the fact they have allegiance to a crook; and birds of a feather…good luck in prison.”

        Yet…and this is just one of a couple:

        Just 14 minutes earlier on January 20, 2010 at 1:03 am, Sage posted this in reply to a long post:

        “Only idiots would use Wiki. Perhaps that why you’re so familiar!”

        I don’t think Sage can be honest to save her life! Not only is she a liar, she’s not a very intelligent liar at that.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        The above comment wasn’t intended to be posted on this thread. I reposted in the correct spot.

  • Sage

    I guess we’ll see when all the dust settles who is right and who is wrong. It’s sad that people cannot see the bigger picture. It’s all relative.

    I do think it’s ridiculous that we all “got our panties in a wad”. I think whales should not be hunted to the brink of extinction; which they are not. I don’t want any animal hunted to the brink of extinction. When I started commenting on this board, that was my main point. Everyone has a right to food choices. JUST BECAUSE YOU DON’T AGREE DOESN’T GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO CALL THEM TERRORISTS AND MAKE RACIST REMARKS. Not a very good way to win warriors over.

    I will say that if you speak against the anti-whalers, the people on this board attack you, and I attacked back, oh well. I’ve lost no sleep over their supposed cause.

    I will reiterate that if any one places their vessels directly in front of another vessel, they deserve to get hit. I own a vessel license and own a boat as well and that kind of dangerous maneuvering would not only get you rammed from my vessel, but probably shot as well, most certainly if you endangered my family. Hell hath no fury.

    Let us remember, it’s all opinion.

    Oh, just FYI, I haven’t actually read any long post rebuttals about me/to me due to the incessant amount of jibberish and the fact they have allegiance to a crook; and birds of a feather…good luck in prison.

    • Tom Thumb

      Sage,

      Could you try thinning down your rant to a couple of lines. When you go overboard like this it is pretty embarrassing.

      Much appreciated,

      Tom.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      LOL….if it’s “all relative”, then there is no “right” or “wrong”

      Sage, you might want to go to wikipedia and learn the meaning of “relativity”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_relativity

      ddpalmer, I know you caught that. Funny how you didn’t point it out to Sage before I did…gotta love the comradery of the japanese whaler sympathizers…

      • ddpalmer

        Gee you have amazing powers if you ‘know’ what I did or didn’t catch. Can you tell us all where Osama bin Laden is?

        Of course you are wrong. I haven’t checked this set of comments since late Tuesday, had a major overhaul to accomplish on short notice at work.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Whatever, but would you have called her on it?…that I doubt very much! Both you and Sage have been found to be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest!

        Sage Posted this 1/20/2010 at 1:17 am:

        “Oh, just FYI, I haven’t actually read any long post rebuttals about me/to me due to the incessant amount of jibberish and the fact they have allegiance to a crook; and birds of a feather…good luck in prison.”

        Yet…and this is just one of a couple:

        Just 14 minutes earlier on January 20, 2010 at 1:03 am, Sage posted this in reply to a long post:

        “Only idiots would use Wiki. Perhaps that why you’re so familiar!”

        I don’t think Sage can be honest to save her life! Not only is she a liar, she’s not a very intelligent liar at that.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      ” I think whales should not be hunted to the brink of extinction; which they are not. I don’t want any animal hunted to the brink of extinction.” -Sage

      Ok, so if a group of Koreans were hunting dogs in your neighborhood and taking them back to their neighborhood to eat, you would be ok with that? And I understand that the Koreans slowly beat the dogs to death to “tenderise” their flesh before they are eaten. Why? Because some Koreans believe that softened dog meat is a sexual aphrodisiac.

      Also, dogs would qualify as fair game, according to your statement, since we all know dogs aren’t at the brink of extinction.

      I look forward to watching you rationalize your way out of this one…

  • ddpalmer

    Hello, Gavin MacQueen. How has your day been.

    I don’t know if I would have commented on Sage’s using the wrong word. Since I never had the chance we will never know. Hypothetical questions like that are pretty useless unless you can recreate a situation that no longer exsists.

    The rest of you post is a rant about Sage, although you try and paint me with the same brush, with one very poor example. Unless you can define what Sage considers a ‘long post’ your whole example falls apart. It also doesn’t hold together because the post she appears to be referring to doesn’t appear to a rebuttal to anything she posted, so her earlier comment wouldn’t apply.

    Better luck next time. maybe you should call some of your friends back to help.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      Wow ddpalmer, you are a lover of semantics. It’s really quite a petty way to argue a point.

  • ddpalmer

    As I have said before, if you want to discuss the facts then post some facts. If you want to use ad hominem attacks and avoid the issues then I can do that too.

    And what is it with you and Koreans. Do you not like Koreans or is it that you don’t like dogs? Just wondering.

    Have a great day, I have to head to the galley for lunch, pork chops with apple sauce.

  • Gavin MacQueen

    My attacks are within the context of the debate. My critiquing the way you debate, doesn’t fall under an ad hominem attack. Now, if I accounted your style of debating to your age, sex, religioun or political party for example, yes, then you could accuse me of resorting to argumentum ad hominem. What’s ironic, is that your question to me about Koreans is closer to an ad hominem attack than anything I have uttered. And to be truthful, I believe we are all guilty of it now and then, more some that other. It’s basically all about keeping in under control. Sage is a good example of someone who is out of control with these attacks.

    As to your comment about “koreans” Not sure where that’s coming from. But to answer your odd question, I don’t like koreans that beat dogs to death. So you like to wonder? Try wondering for a moment what it would be like to be a mother minke whale, swimming through the south seas with your new born, then all of a sudden feeling a japanese harpoon slicing through your back causing you to struggle & suffocate in agony for what might feel like an eternity while being dragged to the ship for that final bullet to the head, hoping that the first bullet meets it’s mark.

    MMMmmm, pork chops and apple sauce. I just had chicken with mashed potatoes.

    • ddpalmer

      The Korean comment was because you have repeatedly ask hypothetical questions involving Koreans and dogs. So I was lead to wonder why you keep bring this up in a discussion of whaling.

      As far as your latest hypothetical question, since I am not a mother Minke and since I have never been shot in the back it is impossible for me to know what it would be like. But why did you add the newborn calf to your question? Especially since the calves are born in the southern winter when the whales are in warmer tropical waters and have usually been weaned by the time they return to the Antarctic feeding grounds in the southern summer, which is where and when the Japanese whales hunt them. Also TTD averages less than 3 minutes and when commercial whaling is practiced (like by Norway and Iceland) the whales can be harpooned in the head where the explosive tip means most kills are instantaneous.

      “Mother-calf pairs are usually sighted in the lower latitudes of the wintering grounds, but are much rarer in the higher latitude summer feeding grounds.”

      http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/species/mammals/cetaceans/minkewhale.htm

      I know this is an emotional issue for you and many others. But emotions don’t trump the law. The whale hunting by Japan, Iceland and Norway is legal. Being emotionally against it is your right, but supporting vigilantes will not change the laws and will not stop whaling. Just like chasing the whalers doesn’t stop whaling. I saw last last year where they harvested 4 whales while the SSCS where less than 500 yards away.

      • Lochy Jones

        Gosh DDpalmer – why everyday is ecorazzi full of your diatribe?

      • Billy Jean is my lover

        Think about it ddpalmey, Last year SS had 1 ship down there. Japan had what 5? Theres no way they can stop all of the whale harvesting. They are doing their best with the limited resources they have (and a slow ship). Funny how 1 man and his organisation is trying to make a difference and you are on the attack about a few whales slipping through the net. He can’t do everything, great to know there are people like you around attacking someone for having a go and having passion.

      • b r o k e n

        Gavin does not need to call in reinforcements, you would only say that if you thought you had him over a barrel and that he needed backup. Fact is a lot of people on here are against what the Japanese are doing. plain and simple.

        This should be a reason alone to stop killing cetaceans:

        http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=481647

        Keep your comments within the boundary of decent.

      • Enola Gay

        You must have missed something DDPalmer, I was referring to you as the Condescending one. You seem a bit tangled up, are you OK? Perhaps this is all a bit too much for you.

      • ddpalmer

        No you must have missed something enola gay, you just got a little mixed up. You specifically said “That is superb that you like mashed potatoes and chicken”, I never mentioned either of those Gavin MacQueen did. I mentioned pork chops and apple sauce.

        So maybe you should be a little more careful so you can refer to the person you really mean to.

        Better luck next time.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        lol…I’m so touched that my lunch became the topic of the day.

        It was clear to me when I read Enola Gay’s comment that she/he meant to say, “pork chops and apple sauce” Enola Gay simply got our lunches mixed up, not biggie!

      • Gavin MacQueen

        ddpalmer, what’s the deal? How can you expect anyone to believe a word you say when you exaggerate, embellish, and lie?

        Case and point:

        You made this statement in response to my post,

        “The Korean comment was because you have repeatedly ask hypothetical questions involving Koreans and dogs.”

        Fact: I only used the Korean and dog reference once in a hypothetical questi…ONCE. That’s all it took for me to be accused of “repeatedly asking hypothetical questions involving Koreans.” And I’ve seen ddpalmer call bloggers idiots for making errors such as this.

        It’s a really waste of time debating with knuckleheads like Sage and ddpalmer. I mean, even when they know they’re wrong, they will never admit it, continuing their charade by resorting to straw man arguments.

        Something else revealing about ddpalmer, she makes this statement:

        “As far as your latest hypothetical question, since I am not a mother Minke and since I have never been shot in the back it is impossible for me to know what it would be like.”

        Now I’m starting to understand ddpalmer. This statement is indicative of someone who lacks compassion, empathy and imagination. Very sad! I guess if you don’t give a rats ass about the suffering of an animal being slaughtered, it makes total sense why she’s rooting for the whalers.

        It’s interesting that ddpalmer thinks that 3 mins average for an animal to suffer, until it succumbs to it’s death, is a short time. And that’s only the average amount of time. It would be interesting to place a red-hot iron on ddpalmer’s back and see if she could endure just 2 seconds.

        As for a cows are concerned, slaughter houses stun the cow to the point of unconsciousness before they are slaughtered, then drained of their blood until death. A far cry from how whales are slaughtered. And also, livestock is bred for the sole purpose of food, whereas whales are not.

      • ddpalmer

        Gavin do you what Kosher means? And how they slaughter animals?

        Better Luck next time.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Yes, which is why I’ll never eat kosher.

        “better luck next time”?? You didn’t even graze me with your retort…lol

        I notice that the more desperate and week your responses are the more likely you end your post with your pat “better luck next time” line as if I’m were idiots and read that thinking, damn!, he got me again…oh dear…lol

      • ddpalmer

        No I tend to use better luck next time when I catch someone make an incorrect statement or in this case when they lie.

        “As for a cows are concerned, slaughter houses stun the cow to the point of unconsciousness before they are slaughtered…”

        Originally I thought you just didn’t know about kosher slaughterhouses when you said that slaughter houses stun the cows first. But thanks to you telling us that you know what kosher means then your statement about stunning before bleeding them out was actually a lie.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        ddpalmer, PLEASE tell me that you’re not that stupid.

        What I said about slaughterhouses is true relative to the beef I eat. You brought up the slaughtering of cows in what appeared to be a feeble attempt to make me out to be a hypocrite. I addressed your comment with the type of slaughtering of cows that I subscribe to. I DON”T EAT KOSHER BEEF! Therefore there would have been no point in my bringing up kosher slaughterhouses since I don’t support it in any way.

        Now, if I ate kosher meat, and addressed the issue as I did, then you would have had a case against me.

        If you were a witty sole, you would have asked me ‘first’ if I eat kosher beef, pork, or whatever and if I had answered back with a ‘yes’, then you would have been able to pounce and justifiably call me a hypocrite. You need to learn how to corner the person you debating. Never say ask a question that has a built-in escape hatch.

      • ddpalmer

        OK Gavin, I am not that stupid.

        But obviously you are going to lie to try and get out of your earlier lie.

        You where the one to bring up cows. You made a blanket statement about them stunning the cows and didn’t qualify it with anything about the meat you eat.

        Then you say I called you a hypocrite, which I didn’t. And I wouldn’t have because at least in this case you weren’t being a hypoctite but a liar.

        I don’t need to learn how to corner you, you do it yourself.

        Better luck next time.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Wow, my bad, you are right in the fact that you did not bring up cows first.

        The fact is, I don’t always have a lot of time to read and respond to post on here, and sometimes I read through them too fast. In this case, I caught the words “calf” & “grounds” and made the wrong distinction, forgetting that baby whales are called calves as well. Not to mention that I’m so used to those who support the slaughtering of whales to ask anti-whaling advocates to try to explain the distinction between eating whales and eating beef.

        I admit that I errored in jumping to this conclusion. Even in light of the fact that you often make typos, which have caused for me to mentally correct them as I read your posts, it was again, my mistake. And though you didn’t typo in your sentence, “But why did you add the newborn calf to your question?” I incorrectly read it as,” But why ‘didn’t’ you add the newborn calf to your question?”

        Also, even though you used the word “grounds” appropriately, the word somehow had me thinking in the context of the word, “Land”. Again, my error. Not to mention that I somehow also missed the word “water”.

        It should be understood that I’m not tying to make excuses, but rather giving an explanation. From now on when I don’t have the time to carefully read someone’s post, I will wait until a better time when I do.

        With that, I apologize and I retract any criticism written towards you in conjunction with my error.

        Just be clear of the fact that I did not lie.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Stanford DNA study: Hunting minke whales on grounds of overabundance not justified

        The killing of Antarctic minke whales has been justified on the theory that their population is booming. A Stanford study, based on minke DNA, concludes that the population is, in fact, not booming. The researchers ran their DNA tests on whale meat from grocery stores in Japan.

        Read more: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/january18/minke-whale-research-012110.html

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Gavin does not need to call in reinforcements, you would only say that if you thought you had him over a barrel and that he needed backup. Fact is a lot of people on here are against what the Japanese are doing. plain and simple.

        This should be a reason alone to stop killing cetaceans:

        http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=481647

        Keep your comments within the boundary of decent.

      • ddpalmer

        Hey Gavin, why did you copy and paste broken’s post from 3 days ago? If I didn’t know better I would think you are also broken and just forgot who you were signed in as.

        But no matter. I already answered that one. It is old news, only applies to dolphins from one area, Minke whales have the lowest contaminant levels of almost any sea food and Japan (as most other countries) issues guidelines to limit how much seafood people eat.

        As to the Minke DNA study, which is based on data from the Japanese research hunt, is interesting and I have already read parts of the actual research. You would think that the Stanford news could get the facts straight. There was a theory that Minke population may have surged do to less competition and that therefore culling the Minke might help other whales recover. Which is a very reasonable theory. Remove the competition for food and you would expect, all things being equal, that population would increase.

        It was a theory and never used as the REASON for whaling, except in the sense that they were collecting data to prove or disprove the theory. Now it has been proven false, great. But you miss the other side of the coin. Minke population has been steady at ~670,000 so the appropriate sustainable hunting level would be at a minimum 3,350 per year based on standard harvest statistics and the IWC RMP. The Japanese take <1,000 so the Minke have no worries about extinction.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Now think about that ddpalmer…

        If that was true, why would I post exactly the same thing that broken posted days ago. Your reasoning is wack!

        The truth of the matter is that I was trying to post the DNA message as a new thread. On the first attempt it posted on an unintended thread(the thread where you found it)not sure why. So I went to copy it(so I didn’t have to write it out again) and refreshed my browser first to insure that I was off of the unintended thread, and pasted. If you look at broken’s post and the DNA post, you’ll find that they look similar in size and both have links. What I had done was copy/pasted broken’s posts by mistake. And then wouldn’t you know, it posted on that same damn thread. Not sure if it is a problem with the site or with my browser.

        I’m having other problems with this site as well. I post something, and it renders immediately, I post something else, and it doesn’t render at all. I shall keep trying.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        “A team of 18 scientists on the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research ship the Tangaroa would set sail for the Ross Sea on Monday.

        They would prove that scientific research could be gathered without killing whales by taking photographs, collecting “tiny slivers” of skin for genetic testing, and using underwater microphones to monitor the sounds emitted by whales.”

        Read more: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3272672/Secret-scientists-cast-doubt-on-Japanese-whale-numbers

    • Enola Gay

      That is superb that you like mashed potatoes and chicken, isn’t that wonderful news people? I was going to call you a condescending pr***, but I wont for the moment.

      Answer me this, do you think it is perfectly Ok for the Japanese to come down to the southern ocean whale sanctuary and brutally slaughter whales (900 odd), dump tons of blood, offal and other waste into the pristine antarctic waters (btw – they have complete disregard for the AAT, and don’t have formal permission to be there) and then zoom off home?

      I thought you might like this comment:

      “Last season the Japanese fleet captured over 300 female whales, 63 percent of which were pregnant.”

      • ddpalmer

        Why would you consider call Gavin MacQueen a “condescending pr***”? He is on your side. Hopefully he will still answer the questions you asked him.

        And you better be careful b r o k e n may get after you for not staying within his boundaries of decency.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      ddpalmer, so now that I have reread your post correctly, I will now respond to it correctly:

      You said, “Especially since the calves are born in the southern winter when the whales are in warmer tropical waters and have usually been weaned by the time they return to the Antarctic feeding grounds in the southern summer, which is where and when the Japanese whales hunt them.”

      I’m grateful that you did at least use the word “usually”

      The fact that you said, “…usually been weaned by the time they return…”, has you admitting that it can in fact happen. Therefore, my hypothetical question is valid and completely within reason.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      I’m still unable to get a post to render on this blog, so I going to try something. It first wouldn’t post at all, then on other attemts, I would get an error message telling me that it was a duplictate post.

      So I’m going to post it in three parts in hopes to trick what ever the bug in this blogs programming is doing to prevent my posts from rendering.

      PART 1(this is the only part of my post that I could get to render, but I’m re-posting it for contextual purposes)

      But back to the topic. Below is post that I’ve made several attempts to submit, but never posted. I was able to post part of it for reasons unknown, so I’m re-posting it in it’s entirety this time. Also, it won’t post on the thread that I want it to post on. So, I’m going to submit it here in hopes that it will finally post.

      ddpalmer, you said, “Especially since the calves are born in the southern winter when the whales are in warmer tropical waters and have usually been weaned by the time they return to the Antarctic feeding grounds in the southern summer, which is where and when the Japanese whales hunt them.”

      I’m grateful that you did at least use the word “usually”

      The fact that you said, “…usually been weaned by the time they return…”, has you admitting that it can in fact happen. Therefore, my hypothetical question is valid and completely within reason.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      For some reason PART 2 will not render. It makes no sense. The only thing I can think of is that it doesn’t like the link I provided. The link was for video that shows a mother whale and it’s calf being hauled onto the Japanese processing ship. I’m sure you can google it.

      Here’s PART 2 without the link:

      PART 2

      Ddpalmer, Please take a look at this video. It shows a mother whale and her calf being hauled onto the japanese processing ship. If after watching, you find yourself hungry instead of feeling some compassion, you might want to take a good look inside yourself and wonder what may have caused this callus nature of yours.

      • ddpalmer

        No it doesn’t.

        It shows a larger and a smaller whale being hauled into the processing ship. The anti-whalers put a caption on it saying mother and calf but they had no proof.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      So that was it. It wouldn’t allow me to post my comments because of the link I provided. Strange! Here’s the third and last part.

      PART 3

      I’m still disturbed by your statement,

      “…since I am not a mother Minke and since I have never been shot in the back it is impossible for me to know what it would be like.”

      I didn’t ask you to TELL me what it felt like…I asked you to try to wonder(in other words, imagine)for a moment what it would be like. Now if you are unable to do this, then I’m afraid to say that you may be exhibiting some psychopathic characteristics.

      • ddpalmer

        And I said since I am not a minke whale I can’t know what it would feel like. The only possible way would be to anthropomorphize and assume that minke whales have exactly the same feelings and emotions as humans, for which there is no proof.

        Now if you feel humans and minke whales are analogous then I’m afraid to say that you may be exhibiting some psychopathic characteristics.

  • ddpalmer

    Nice story broken but what does that have to do with the Minke whales that Japan hunts in the Antarctic? And actually the Antarctic Minke whales have some of the lowest levels of mercury and other contaminants of any seafood. And the mercury levels in Taiji are old news. The Japanese know about it and have suggested limits on the consumption of all seafood, just like the US does and Australia does and just about every other country does. When people are informed of a hazard and decide to ignore the warning that is their right, just like people who smoke.

    I don’t understand you request that I keep me comments within the boundary of decent, since I don’t see where I went out of that boundary. And since you aren’t the moderator here your opinion on that issue doesn’t matter.

    If Ecorazzi.com wants to moderate/edit/ban my posts they can and will. But as of yet they obviously don’t have a problem.

    • b r o k e n

      I posted because you were attacking another poster (as usual?) with some flimsy statements.

      The Minke slaughter in Antartica? Yeah – it’s a terrible thing that goes on. Japan should stop immediately. It’s brutal, immoral and unethical. Period.

    • bockscar

      DDPalmer – it is YOU who is the condescending, pedantic moron.

      Yawn yawn. Step up will you?

      • ddpalmer

        Hey bockscar. How is your day going.

        So posting facts makes someone a condescending, pedantic moron?

  • grumpy old man

    They need to rebuild asap and get back down there and stop these disrespectful war mongers.

    Japan doesnt care, they make their won rules. They ram ships and purport the most dreadful unbelievable propaganda, propaganda not seen since the days of hitler. Glenn Inwood and other trolls around here also each the same BS.

    By the way, in 1943 Japan deliberately targeted and torpedoed a clearly marked Australian hospital ship, yeah a hospital ship:

    The attack on the Centaur, which was clearly marked as a hospital ship, killed 268 people. Japan has never taken full responsibility for the attack that wartime Prime Minister John Curtin said had violated “all the principles of common humanity”.

    These are the sort of people we are dealing with.

  • ddpalmer

    Let us see. I answered someones question. Then I explained why I couldn’t answer their hypothetical question and gave them some facts of which they apparently weren’t aware.

    Is that the “attacking” you mean?

    “It’s brutal, immoral and unethical.” These are all your opinion and I don’t think Japan will stop because of your opinion. Sorry.

    • grumpy old man

      No need to apologies DDPalmer, we know you are weak, feeble and a coward. But behind your keyboard, you are the man. Your tough words are like swords. But in the open real world, you would not stand a chance. Puppet.

    • Billy Jean is my lover

      Ah geez, DDPalmer – stop being so sensitive. The Whaling is wrong on so many levels. Now you have just made a mess of everything.

      Japan is NOT doing whale research! Real research can be done on biopsies, observations and scats. Despite the IWC foolishly allowing lethal and unnecessary research, commercial whaling is still banned. Japan is doing commercial whaling and this is easily proved, and they are illegally planning to enter the Aust Antarctic territory and the whale sanctuary. The crew should be arrested and the ships impounded. Why doesnt
      Australia have a government ready to do what they promised before being elected? Kevin Rudd should be enforcing our Antarctic claim, not surrendering to Japan. Obama should be involved too.

  • ddpalmer

    Really Billy Jean? How do you sample a whales organs with a biopsy? How do you analyze it’s ear plug non-lethally? Yes much research can be done non-lethally (and the Japanese do a lot of none lethal research) but the IWC agrees that some data can only be obtained by lethal means.

    The AAT extends 12 nm into the Antarctic Ocean, so the Japanese don’t enter it.

    The IWC hasn’t stopped the Japanese research whaling, so the international agency with the power to regulate whaling doesn’t object. Why? Because it is legal.

    Why should Obama get involved? Firstly he has enough other real problems to deal with. Secondly the US has no claims in the Antarctic and the US isn’t the worlds police force.

    Grumpy Old Man, I think you need to drink some warm milk and get some sleep because in the real world many nations are legally whaling and will continue to legally whale for years to come. So I don’t know what fantasy world you live in.

    • abacus

      haha Everytime I come back here, it’s DDPalmer at it again. With his exact Nautical Mile measurements and what not. Who the hell cares. The IWC is just as corrupt and dodgy as Japans reason to whale are. They tried to ban Scientific Whaling, but Japans Vote buying prevents that. Either way, that wont stop them. Perhaps they feel better telling the World a lie:

      “We whale for science and eat the leftovers” instead of defying the ban on commercial whaling like norway and iceland do.

      • ddpalmer

        First the IWC never tried to ban scientific whaling.

        Second both sides have been vote buying. In fact the anti-whalers started it in the 80s to get the moratorium in the first place.

        The whale to collect data to prove that sustainable whaling of the Minke is possible and the IWC Scientific Committee agrees but the full IWC wont listen to their own scientists so the Japanese keep doing more research to further prove that it is sustainable.

        Also eating the leftovers is required by IWC Article VIII. So the Japanese are following the laws by selling the leftovers.

        If the IWC would accept the Japanese data and lift the moratorium then the IWC would set the whaling quotas, unlike the quotas under Article VIII which are set by the nations government. So lifting the moratorium would actually allow the IWC to decrease the Japanese quota.

    • grumpy old man

      Thanks for the suggestion DDPalmer. Just got a fix of warm milk and sipping on it now. So where were we, oh yeah, you were ranting about well nothing really, inamongst it there was mention of Obama. Well he is a child of the pacific and loves whales. whether or not its legal doesnt matter. Its immoral and quite frankly, rude to all the countries that agreed to set up the sanctuary.

      • ddpalmer

        I think the President will care whether it is legal or not before he drags the US into the situation.

  • Pingback: The Acer Guy » Blog Archive » Starting the New Year with a (green) bang.

  • Gavin MacQueen

    Stanford DNA study: Hunting minke whales on grounds of overabundance not justified

    The killing of Antarctic minke whales has been justified on the theory that their population is booming. A Stanford study, based on minke DNA, concludes that the population is, in fact, not booming. The researchers ran their DNA tests on whale meat from grocery stores in Japan.

    Read more: http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/january18/minke-whale-research-012110.html

    • ddpalmer

      Gee Gavin. You already posted this article 15 hours ago and 9 hours ago I explained why the premise that it somehow destroys the reason Japan uses for whaling is wrong.

      But here goes again. Japan didn’t say they were taking Minke to allow the other baleen whales to recover or because the Minke population had exploded. They said that Minke population may have exploded and culling them may allow other whale species to recover faster, but that this theory would need to be tested through research. Now that enough data has been collected and DNA science has advanced enough the theory that the Minke population exploded when the other whale species declined has been disproved. The theory that culling the Minke may allow other species to recover faster hasn’t been addressed.

      The study also determined that the Antarctic Minke population is ~670,000 which using standard conservation statistics and the IWC RMP would allow for an annual harvest of ~3,350 whales with no effect on the overall population.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        No kidding. Didn’t you read my earlier response? The spot where you first saw this post was not where I intended it to post.

        Memory refresh:

        “I was trying to post the DNA message as a new thread. On the first attempt it posted on an unintended thread(the thread where you found it)not sure why. So I went to copy it(so I didn’t have to write it out again) and refreshed my browser first to insure that I was off of the unintended thread, and pasted. If you look at broken’s post and the DNA post, you’ll find that they look similar in size and both have links. What I had done was copy/pasted broken’s posts by mistake. And then wouldn’t you know, it posted on that same damn thread. Not sure if it is a problem with the site or with my browser.”

      • ddpalmer

        So it took you 15 hours to figure out how to repost the DNA story even though it had already been shown to be a none story?

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Did you read my post where I said that there was a problem with this site? I tried posting it right away but it didn’t post. So I waited tell the next day and tried it again, and it finally posted. There is still a post I did more than 15 hours ago hasn’t shown up yet. I’m going to try it again right now.

  • Gavin MacQueen

    “A team of 18 scientists on the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research ship the Tangaroa would set sail for the Ross Sea on Monday.

    They would prove that scientific research could be gathered without killing whales by taking photographs, collecting “tiny slivers” of skin for genetic testing, and using underwater microphones to monitor the sounds emitted by whales.”

    Read more: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3272672/Secret-scientists-cast-doubt-on-Japanese-whale-numbers

    • ddpalmer

      This research will be a welcome addition to the Japanese non-lethal and lethal research. The Japanese agree that much data can be collected by non-lethal means but there is data that can’t be collected by non-lethal means.

      If all you are trying to do is estimate population size and distribution non-lethal is perfectly fine. But if you are trying to measure age, contaminant levels, reproductive status, etc. then non-lethal methods don’t work.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        Ok, assuming that what you’re saying is correct, why does it take the lives of 900 plus whales per year to accomplish this?

        And please answer these questions:

        What exactly are the japanese hoping to accomplish by knowing the age, contaminant levels, reproductive status of these whales? Does the end really justify the means?

        And why is it only Japan that feels the need to achieve this type of research? And is it just a coincidence that the very whales that they are researching are in fact also a marketable product sold in Japan, not to mention other markets?

      • Mick

        Gavin,

        The answer to your questions are quite simple and by no means a secret.
        What the ICR is trying to accomplish is to scientifically prove that the population of Minke whales in the SO is healthy. They are also trying to determine an accurate estimate of the total numbers and the growth rate.
        The reason they are doing this is to prove that limited and sustainable commercial whaling can resume. In other words, the goal of their research is the resumption of commercial whaling.
        They began this research because the IWC requires scientific proof that commercial whaling is sustainable before they will allow it to resume.
        So, in a nutshell, they are doing research because the IWC requires that they do so.

      • ddpalmer

        Thanks for the assist Mick.

        Just one thing to add. No one else does this type research because no one else wants to restart commercial whaling. Iceland and Norway just filed exceptions to the moratorium and continued commercial whaling.

  • From MN, with hope…

    Wow DDPalmer. I have looked back on most of your posts, and they are mostly aimed at direct people that you are responding to, and contain no real information. The fact is that yes other nation kill whales, yes, but Japan kills by far the majority. Very few Japanese have ever eaten whale meat, so why continue whaling? ITs a useless industry that needs to stop.

    And as said in a previous post in an article that got out of hand(not directed towards anyone): No more personal insults. It doesnt help you or your cause.

    • ddpalmer

      Very few people own Rolls Royce cars. So we should shut down the factory?

      Very few people go to the diner down the street from my apartment. So we should force it to shut down?

      The number of people that eat whale meat is not a reason to shut down the industry. If there are really that few people and if the numbers are going even lower, as the SSCS claims, then it will become uneconomical to continue whaling and the industry will shut itself down.

      And if you read the threads that I have posted in you would have seen many other people who were at least as bad at “…they are mostly aimed at direct people that you are responding to, and contain no real information.” I know that I have strayed from the path on occasion. but why didn’t you respond to any of the others? Could it be that they were all anti-whalers just like you, so you could overlook their faults?

      • From MN, with hope…

        No question there are others who post nonsense and no information, but you by far post the most. Now I know a rebuttle about that will come, but I dont bother with them because they’re either pro-whalers who come around for one post, then leave, or they’re anti-whaling, and its what you call nonsense, or what everyone calls nonsense.

        I see no real point for a Rolls Royce. They are special order cars, which is why not many people own them. That diner near your apartment, if it wasnt profitable, and very few people really went there, it would close. It obviously has enough customers for them to remain operational.

        I’m not talking about business’ that should close due to very few customers, because that will work itself out (usually resulting in the business closing). But whaling is an industry that is government funded. It wont end the way a business will. It has an unlimited supply of money to go into it. All it can do is become less-profitable, which is what the SSCS is doing. The Japanese government shouldnt continue putting money into an industry that has little demand. Those very few people that have tried/eat whale meat have the alternative of chicken, beef, pork, or going vegan. There really is no need for whaling.

    • Mick

      From MN, with hope..,

      You stated, “Very few Japanese have ever eaten whale meat, so why continue whaling?”
      Your information is incorrect. Most Japanese people have eaten whale. It was commonly eaten until the 1970′s. Fewer people eat whale meat now. However, there is a considerable number who eat whale meat and who want to eat whale meat.
      You can find whale meat at the local grocery store periodically. When they get some in it sells out the same day. You can buy canned whale meat at the local drug store year ’round. They have no problem selling it. It does not sit on the shelf and collect dust. It’s not just older people who eat it, either. I’ve talked to people between the ages of 10 to 71. People of all ages eat it. Some people like it. Some do not. I can assure you that from my own personal experience that there is a respectible and steady market for whale meat in Japan.

  • ddpalmer

    “But whaling is an industry that is government funded. It wont end the way a business will. It has an unlimited supply of money to go into it. All it can do is become less-profitable…”

    Oh you mean like windmills, solar, ethanol, biodiesel, etc.

    “Those very few people that have tried/eat whale meat have the alternative of chicken, beef, pork, or going vegan. There really is no need for whaling.”

    Replace ‘whale meat’ with any other food (animal or vegetable) and the results are the same. For instance there is no need for oranges, the people that eat oranges could eat peaches, apples or limes. There is no real need for growing oranges. Now is that a reason to stop the growing of oranges? I don’t think so.

    Why does any one feel they have the right to tell other people in other countries what is and isn’t appropriate to eat? Many countries in Europe eat horses. Is there a movement in the US to get them to stop? I haven’t heard of one, there is a push to stop horses from the US being sold for meat, although it is still possible and legal for horse meat to be in pet food sold in the US.

    And because you brought up going vegan, some of the searches I did came up with this fact. More people in Japan eat whale (5% of 127,000,000 = 6.35 million) than are vegan in the United States (1.4% of 304,000,000 = 4.2 million).

    • From MN, with hope…

      America has been pressured from other countries to do thing, like invade a country, and we do, sometimes. Other say we should leave the country, but we dont. America is stubbourn, as is every otehr country.

      You cant replace whale meat with other fruits/vegetables/meats. You cant replace it with cow meat, or poultry, or pork. In a previous year there was 4000 tons of whale meat that wasnt purchased or used in any way. It just sat in a warehouse, rotting. Was there an orange surplus? We have uses for oranges that we dont eat.

      I have no idea what you meant by refering to the windmills, solar, ethanol, biodiesel, etc… Please rephrase. What I meant by the statement you were refering to was that its uselss to compare business’ with Japanese whaling. The whalers are government funded. Need more money? Take it. The government says you can have it. Similar to NASA. NASA will meet bankrupcy, and stop launching rockets. Its funded by the US government. They spend taxes to launch the shuttle, and research Mars and such.

      • ddpalmer

        You were the one who said that people that eat whale meat could replace it with some other type of food. And I pointed out that you could replace any single food with some other food.

        “In a previous year there was 4000 tons of whale meat that wasnt purchased or used in any way. It just sat in a warehouse, rotting.”

        Sorry but you are wrong. No whale meat sat in a warehouse and rotting. If this were true why would Japan be importing whale meat from Iceland? Since whaling only occurs during certain times of the year, some is stored frozen and it is then slowly released throughout the year so whale is available year round. The level in storage goes up and down every year.

        There is a similar situation in the US with potatoes (and many other foods), they aren’t harvested year round. So much of the harvest is stored to provide potatoes though the year.

        I was using windmills, solar, ethanol and biodiesel as examples of industries that couldn’t survive without government subsidies. The biofuel industry in the US gets $4 billion a year and the US has a GDP of $14.2 trillion so that is 0.028%. The Japanese whalers have never gotten more than $5 million and Japan has a GDP of $4.91 trillion so that is 0.0001%. The whalers aren’t like NASA, only about 10% of their budget comes from the government and the subsidies are actual loans.

      • From MN, with hope…

        I was refering to how you said replace “whale meat” in the sentence with anythign else. Whale meat can (and will eventually) be replaced with other food. Yes as I said every food can be replaced with another.

        It is possible that I am wrong. The internet isnt exactly the most reliable place. Maybe my source misinterprited it as storage for yearound consumption.

        The eco-market (windmills, solar, etc…) has been almost created by the California government. The government really wants to help reduce our dependancy on fossil fuels, so they hand out cash to renewable energy companies.

        I know it isnt a government program, but its funded by the government. I have no exact percentage of how much comes out of the Japanese taxpayers pocket, so you may be right. NASA might not have been the best example.

        Either way the whalers are wasting money, and are in big trouble for ramming the Ady Gil. I still support Sea Shepherd. They are risking everything to stop this dying industry. They have been very successful in their efforts to stop whaling from being too profitable. That is the passion the world needs for change.

      • Gavin MacQueen

        From MN, with hope,

        Isn’t it frustrating as hell to debate with ddpalmer? He has a way of taking everything you say out of context, resulting in your having to reiterate over and over…but still he responds with apple to oranges arguments. It as if his only objective is to just annoy you. Look up “straw man argument”

  • ddpalmer

    Obviously the Japanese government doesn’t think they are wasting money.

    Nobody is in trouble about the collision yet. When somebody with authority completes their investigation we will see who is in trouble. But since neither side seems to be real cooperative, I expect the investigation will never reach a final decision. Plus their also seems to be a real issue about who has jurisdiction which will further muddy the waters.

    Does it make sense to risk everything to stop an industry that you believe is already dying? Especially when there are other really endangered species you could be trying to help?

    Despite what the SSCS says, they haven’t made a significant dent in the whaling industry. And I don’t believe that the world needs vigilanties who take the law into their own hands.

    • From MN, with hope…

      “Yet” is the keyword there. The investigation is still in progress, but it will soon be over, and New Zealand hopes to come up with a diplomatic solution. Jurisdiction isnt exactly the issue. Its that a Japanese ship hit a New Zealand ship. New Zealand is taking it up as their problem because it was their citizens (at least 4 of the 6 were) and it was a New Zealand registered ship.

      The reason its dying is reduced demand, and Sea Shepherd/Greenpeace intervention throught he years. If Sea Shepherd werent currently there, and if they werent previously stopping whaling, than the number of whales who wouldve been killed wouldve been either constant, or increasing, not decreasing as it currently is. The IWC charter or whatever its called says that an independant group can indeed do what Sea shepherd is doing.

      And Sea Shepherd is going to go help protect the bluefin tuna once they’re done in Antarctica.

      • Mick

        From MN, with hope…,

        You stated that there was a “reduced demand” for whale meat. I can personally say that there is a steady and substantial demand for whale meat in Japan.
        Where in the UN charter you refered to does it say that SS has a right to illegally board ships on the high seas, throw acid at other ships, attempt to foul others ships props at sea and shine potentially harmful lasers at the crews of other ships? SS has not been given legal authority by anyone to interfere with ships operating legally in international waters.

  • ddpalmer

    You are joking right? I really mean it your post was a joke, right?

    By their actions the SSCS has caused a nationalistic reaction in Japan and increased the demand and the resistance to any change in the Japanese stance on whaling.

    2006 508 Minke whales taken
    2007 551 Minke whales taken
    2008 680 Minke whales taken
    2009 Not yet complete

    Looks like the numbers have increased while the SSCS has been there.

    No the IWC doesn’t given anybody the right to do what the SSCS is doing. The SSCS claim that the United Nations World Charter for Nature gives them the authority. Though the UN doesn’t seem to agree and has condemned the actions of the SSCS.

    And yes the SSCS say they are going to the Med to save the Tuna. The only problem is that the Atlantic Blue Fin is in better shape than the Southern Blue Fin. So why don’t they stay around Australia and protect the more endangered species of tuna?

    • From MN, with hope…

      Wow, a bit if attitude in that post. Regardless of ANYTHING you say, I support the SSCS, and am opposed to whaling.

      And, call me paranoid, but due to what I have seen (ddpalmer comments all over the web), and lack of seen (no more hideyoshi)I am going to ask if you work for Glenn Inwood, or ARE Glenn Inwood. Are you, or do you work for Glenn Inwood?

      Nobody is going to convince me whaling is a good thing. It is a useless industry that needs to stop now.

      And I dont know about the tuna, I dont know Sea Shepherd’s motives to go to the mediterranean.

    • ddpalmer

      Jesus Christ how many times do I have to answer that same stupid question? And you said you went and read all my posts but you still ask. No I don’t work for the ICR or Glenn Inwood. I work for a Great Lakes shipping firm transporting mostly iron ore.

      Now here is one for you. Why do so many anti-whalers insist that anyone that doesn’t support the SSCS must be being paid by someone to post what they do? Is it because you believe that your opinions are always right so that the only way someone wouldn’t agree with you is because they are paid? Do you see me accusing you of being paid by the SSCS? No, because I believe that you have strong opinions about the situation and that is what motivates you.

      “Regardless of ANYTHING you say, I support the SSCS, and am opposed to whaling.”

      Good for you. I am glad you have something you believe that strongly in. But you should check your facts before you post them. I don’t believe everything I read on the ICR, SSCS or even US Government site. And with the internet I can easily do some fact checking.

      Well if you don’t know about the tuna maybe you should look it up before you post about it. I also know what the SSCS says their motive for going to the Med is. But I also question it, because the Southern Blue Fin is in a more critical situation than the Atlantic Blue Fin. So why go over 10,000 miles when they could do more good right where they are? Might it be because the Australians are responsible for 42% of the Southern Blue Fin quota, almost twice the Japanese quota?

      I have tried to have a fact based discussion with you as you wanted. But now you admit that no matter the facts you will support the SSCS. So I guess what you meant was you wanted me to believe everything you post even when I know it is a wrong. Just like the Australians and SSCS claiming that the Japanese won’t compromise on whaling when their idea of compromise is for the Japanese to completely stop whaling. I don’t know about in Australia but in the United States that is not compromise that is demand.

      • From MN, with hope…

        How you interpret it is up to you. I was merely stating that it is useless to try and get me over to your side. You are certainly a respctful person. I mean no personal insult. The reason I asked was because of how I stated. It was a question. The internet isnt the most reliable place. Since whaling is such a bias topic, and since the whalers have said some obvious lies, its not easy to get a variety of truth from the Japanese whaling topic. Oh, and… Another midewestern American here. Hope you are loving the cold as much as I am. I dont demand you accept what I say. Like I said, its just the way you interpret it.

      • Compassionate

        You’ll never make headway (no pun intended) with brainwashed people.

        It’s nice that one of their own is facing three years prison time for their illegal activities; there will be more incarcerations.

    • Gavin MacQueen

      I don’t understand why nobody has gone strait to the horses mouth. I’ve been in contact with Dr Nicky Grandy, Secretary to the Commission, International Whaling Commission, and he’s been wonderful about answering my questions and concerns. Below, I have copy/pasted my question along with Dr. Grany’s answer.

      ME: I would like to know your opinion of the Japanese whaling fleet. Are they killing whale legitimately? Or are they in fact breaking the law?

      Dr Nicky Grandy: Regarding Japan’s current whaling activities, Article VIII of the 1946 International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling, under which the International Whaling Commission (IWC) was established, allows Contracting (member) Governments to issue ‘special permits’ to take whales for research purposes (i.e. Article VIII – see http://www.iwcoffice.org/commission/convention.htm#convention . While Contracting Governments that issue permits must submit proposals (and the results from any research) for review, in accordance with the Convention, it is the Contracting Government that ultimately decides whether or not to issue a permit. The Commission as a body cannot prevent this type of research. The provisions in Article VIII override any other Commission regulations including the commercial whaling moratorium and sanctuaries. Article VIII also requires that the animals be utilised once the scientific data have been collected.

      Research under Article VIII is very controversial among IWC members (and the public). While some Contracting Governments support this right – and Japan’s research programmes, other Contracting Governments believe the killing of whales for research purposes to be unnecessary given other research techniques now available. The Commission has adopted many Resolutions in the past by majority voting urging Japan and others to inter alia refrain from issuing ‘special permits’ but such instruments are not legally binding. The Resolutions are available on our website should you be interested in consulting them (go to: http://www.iwcoffice.org/meetings/resolutions/resolutionmain.htm).

  • ddpalmer

    So, Dr Nicky Grandy, Secretary to the Commission, International Whaling Commission agrees with the fact that Japans whaling activities are perectly legal.

    Has anyone told Paul Watson and the SSCS? Now they can start saving the tuna from the Australians. Oops, I mean they can travel over 10,000 miles wasting time and fuel and adding all that CO2 to the atmosphere to start saving the Tuna from the Europeans.

    • agent orange

      “cockroaches of the sea” is the commments from a Japanese Foreign minister regarding Minke whales. Look at the sort of psyche these poachers have!

    • billy jean is my lover

      More diatribe from ddpalmer.

      The whole ‘special permits’ is bogus, and the IWC members know this. Most of them are against the whaling. They know it is unnecessary and not science at all. A huge farce and for what? Sashimi for <1% of population? Selfish national pride hard at work coming at a huge cost to Japans image.

  • Blue Devil

    Replace cows and chickens with another food? Ddpalmer you are in fact ignorant, those animals are raised to be eaten, I dont see a whale farm anywhere raising whales for the japanese people to chow down on. Instead lets further reduce an already depleted species of animal for a select few so they can have a nice apetizer. Good thing I’m not rich, I’d buy an old Russian Destroyer, arm it, gather a crew, sink every freakin whaling vessel I came across, then fund a salvage expedition to pump all the fuel out of the trashed hulks and we all can have a nice day, and watch ddpalmers jaw drag on the floor

  • Michael

    My question is why did Pete Bethune park the boat right in front of the harpoon ship? So it’s his fault for it getting damaged, he could of moved out of the way the boat goes 50 knots.

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  • klm

    In watching the videos available it looks like the Japanese vessel turned to deliberately come very close to the Ady Gil. Like he was playing chicken but miscalculated distance. In the Japanese video it looks as if the wake of the Ady Gil gets bigger almost as if the chief engineer throttled up to make the boat get closer to the Shonan Maru 2 as it was passing by so I’m not so sure either party is innocent here. I also don’t like that the sea shepards edited their video footage but the Japanese did not. Those guys spend millions to stop whaling and most of their time seems to be spent trying to find the whaling fleet and from what I have seen of the show not much “stopping” is actually getting done. Lots of talk about stopping this atrocity but not much actuality. In the end I have to wonder if the Ady needed to be sunk to collect insurance money and get its captain out of debt. I am sure to get flack for this but I am a realist. My opinion is get out of there and try and spend the money to revise the law that seems to be outdated. Collecting whales for “RESEARCH” is total BS.

  • http://www.cornercomputerarmoiresite.com Jimmy Armoire

    Just finished up the recent season of Whale Wars and the coverage of Mr. Bethune’s captivity. I am glad to see he is bringing the Ady Gil back.