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	<title>Comments on: Moby Questions Author Mark Bittman About Veganism And Factory Farming</title>
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		<title>By: Carla</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-747678</link>
		<dc:creator>Carla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Sep 2010 04:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-747678</guid>
		<description>Please read Eat to Live by Joel Fuhrman. He is an MD who read 2000 medicals studies in preparation for his book. His concluded with absolute certainty that consumption of animal products increases rates of cancer, heart disease, and numerous other chronic ailments. Read the China study, a landmark study showing those folks in remote regions of China who lived on organic produce had near zero rates of the illnesses we all assume we&#039;re going to end up with in old age here in the USA. Don&#039;t just claim to have read things; actually read them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please read Eat to Live by Joel Fuhrman. He is an MD who read 2000 medicals studies in preparation for his book. His concluded with absolute certainty that consumption of animal products increases rates of cancer, heart disease, and numerous other chronic ailments. Read the China study, a landmark study showing those folks in remote regions of China who lived on organic produce had near zero rates of the illnesses we all assume we&#8217;re going to end up with in old age here in the USA. Don&#8217;t just claim to have read things; actually read them.</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-430139</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-430139</guid>
		<description>Again, you state you know the facts, and choose an animals based diet.

Please then, by all means, state the facts that lead you to believe this is an acceptable lifestyle.

Surely you don&#039;t have this belief based on the devastating effects of animal agriculture on our planet. 

And it can&#039;t be that you believe it&#039;s healthier, because science and medicine have proven the vegan diet to be the best diet for optimal human health. 

Certainly it isn&#039;t for the benefit of the animals - who suffer tremendously after living miserable and short lives (I second the recommendation to watch Earthlings, as suggested - this will give you an idea of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight).

So what are these facts you&#039;ve studiously researched that have led you to believe that an animal based diet is a positive one, in any sense of the word?

I mean come on people. We can look back now and see the slavery that was abolished was wrong, we acknowledge the perverse prejudice that gave birth to the Holocaust, and yet we cannot see that we are repeating the same practices? 

There is a group (animals) that another group (humans) feel superior to. Check. The &quot;superior&quot; group enslaves the &quot;inferior&quot; group. Check. The &quot;superior&quot; group justifies these prejudiced and immoral actions by means of attempting to prove the inferiority of the &quot;inferior&quot; group. Check.

So if Jewish and African Americans have equality, if Women have equality, if children and intellectually disabled persons all have equality, why do we still deny the equality of this last group, simply because they are different than we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, you state you know the facts, and choose an animals based diet.</p>
<p>Please then, by all means, state the facts that lead you to believe this is an acceptable lifestyle.</p>
<p>Surely you don&#8217;t have this belief based on the devastating effects of animal agriculture on our planet. </p>
<p>And it can&#8217;t be that you believe it&#8217;s healthier, because science and medicine have proven the vegan diet to be the best diet for optimal human health. </p>
<p>Certainly it isn&#8217;t for the benefit of the animals &#8211; who suffer tremendously after living miserable and short lives (I second the recommendation to watch Earthlings, as suggested &#8211; this will give you an idea of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight).</p>
<p>So what are these facts you&#8217;ve studiously researched that have led you to believe that an animal based diet is a positive one, in any sense of the word?</p>
<p>I mean come on people. We can look back now and see the slavery that was abolished was wrong, we acknowledge the perverse prejudice that gave birth to the Holocaust, and yet we cannot see that we are repeating the same practices? </p>
<p>There is a group (animals) that another group (humans) feel superior to. Check. The &#8220;superior&#8221; group enslaves the &#8220;inferior&#8221; group. Check. The &#8220;superior&#8221; group justifies these prejudiced and immoral actions by means of attempting to prove the inferiority of the &#8220;inferior&#8221; group. Check.</p>
<p>So if Jewish and African Americans have equality, if Women have equality, if children and intellectually disabled persons all have equality, why do we still deny the equality of this last group, simply because they are different than we?</p>
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		<title>By: Whoever...</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-430128</link>
		<dc:creator>Whoever...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-430128</guid>
		<description>Okay, I&#039;m going to make an exception (against my own advice to other people) and actually address a few points you presented:

- &quot;I just want them to respect my different point of view.&quot;
Veg*ans &#039;have no problem&#039; with animal eaters who admit they are aware of the suffering inflicted on animals and are willing to reduce their consumption; I mean, before I became vegan I was also an animal eater (good riddance :)  ); What we don&#039;t accept is animal eaters who don&#039;t give a damn about the suffering inflicted on animals and who truly believe animals are here to serve us and that we&#039;re the superior species; Who says so? Religions? Let&#039;s not even go there! And real scientific research has proved that animals do think and feel &#039;just like&#039; us (although at a different level); And we&#039;re back to the nazis - they also used Jews for labor, to test on, and even used parts of their bodies to manufacture products... sounds familiar?
Animals don&#039;t have a choice about what is done to them so why should this only be a matter of personal choice for animal eaters? If you have that much &#039;free&#039; time, please do click on my nickname and watch the documentary &#039;Earthlings&#039;. If after that you still feel the same way, &#039;fine&#039;! But then at least have the courage to admit you are an insensitive person who doesn&#039;t like animals at all and only have respect for human life (or probably not)...

- &quot;Although to a much smaller and less extreme level Pres. Obama is doing the same thing to the oil, bank and insurance industries.&quot;
Don&#039;t forget to add pharmaceutical companies, multinationals and religious leaders and you have the &#039;elite&#039; who has controlled, manipulated and enslaved us during all these years - funny you&#039;re mentioning this; Just listen to the news and you&#039;ll hear, for instance, about the H1N1 vaccines scam - the so called conspiracy theorists warned about it and now it&#039;s actually the main stream mass media that&#039;s covering this subject! Big pharmaceuticals put a lot of pressure on the WHO to promote the &#039;alleged pandemic&#039; swine flu so that they could make a huge profit with vaccines. Can we then truly trust institutions and organizations like WHO, IMF, the UN and so on? Therefore yes, President Obama is on the right track, although he has no power to stand up to the world elite. Again, please watch the 2 videos on the following site and then draw your own conclusions. From all that I&#039;ve seen, heard and read, it all adds up...
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

- &quot;If you meant ‘believe and follow’ when you said ‘listen’ then you have the problem.&quot;
No I didn&#039;t! I never believe in anything until I have done some research, and even then I&#039;m always open to change my points of view if proven wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I&#8217;m going to make an exception (against my own advice to other people) and actually address a few points you presented:</p>
<p>- &#8220;I just want them to respect my different point of view.&#8221;<br />
Veg*ans &#8216;have no problem&#8217; with animal eaters who admit they are aware of the suffering inflicted on animals and are willing to reduce their consumption; I mean, before I became vegan I was also an animal eater (good riddance <img src='http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   ); What we don&#8217;t accept is animal eaters who don&#8217;t give a damn about the suffering inflicted on animals and who truly believe animals are here to serve us and that we&#8217;re the superior species; Who says so? Religions? Let&#8217;s not even go there! And real scientific research has proved that animals do think and feel &#8216;just like&#8217; us (although at a different level); And we&#8217;re back to the nazis &#8211; they also used Jews for labor, to test on, and even used parts of their bodies to manufacture products&#8230; sounds familiar?<br />
Animals don&#8217;t have a choice about what is done to them so why should this only be a matter of personal choice for animal eaters? If you have that much &#8216;free&#8217; time, please do click on my nickname and watch the documentary &#8216;Earthlings&#8217;. If after that you still feel the same way, &#8216;fine&#8217;! But then at least have the courage to admit you are an insensitive person who doesn&#8217;t like animals at all and only have respect for human life (or probably not)&#8230;</p>
<p>- &#8220;Although to a much smaller and less extreme level Pres. Obama is doing the same thing to the oil, bank and insurance industries.&#8221;<br />
Don&#8217;t forget to add pharmaceutical companies, multinationals and religious leaders and you have the &#8216;elite&#8217; who has controlled, manipulated and enslaved us during all these years &#8211; funny you&#8217;re mentioning this; Just listen to the news and you&#8217;ll hear, for instance, about the H1N1 vaccines scam &#8211; the so called conspiracy theorists warned about it and now it&#8217;s actually the main stream mass media that&#8217;s covering this subject! Big pharmaceuticals put a lot of pressure on the WHO to promote the &#8216;alleged pandemic&#8217; swine flu so that they could make a huge profit with vaccines. Can we then truly trust institutions and organizations like WHO, IMF, the UN and so on? Therefore yes, President Obama is on the right track, although he has no power to stand up to the world elite. Again, please watch the 2 videos on the following site and then draw your own conclusions. From all that I&#8217;ve seen, heard and read, it all adds up&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/</a></p>
<p>- &#8220;If you meant ‘believe and follow’ when you said ‘listen’ then you have the problem.&#8221;<br />
No I didn&#8217;t! I never believe in anything until I have done some research, and even then I&#8217;m always open to change my points of view if proven wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: ddpalmer</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-430073</link>
		<dc:creator>ddpalmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-430073</guid>
		<description>I already know many of the facts from both sides and when I weight those facts I have decided that eating meat is acceptable. If others decide they don’t want to eat meat that is fine, we have had vegetarians on the crew before with no problem, not sure if any of them may have been vegan. But it is many vegetarians/vegans that want to force others to there point of view. I don’t want any vegetarians or vegans to start eating meat. I just want them to respect my different point of view.
“…weren’t hitler ideas similar to this, regarding the Jewish people?” No not really he used the Jewish people and many other minorities as political scapegoats to explain Germanys’ economic problems. Although to a much smaller and less extreme level Pres. Obama is doing the same thing to the oil, bank and insurance industries.
“If this guy isn’t a paid blogger, he sure has too much free time on his hands to annoy other people without even bothering to ‘listen’ to what they have to say.” I spend about an hour or two a day looking at blogs like this one, and as I have explained before I work in coastal shipping. Most of my work day consists of checking gauges for about 5 minutes every hour, unless something breaks then it is constant work until it is repaired. But the ships I work with currently are all well maintained and fairly new. So my job gives me 45+ minutes of free time every hour. If you meant ‘believe and follow’ when you said ‘listen’ then you have the problem. I ‘listen’ to what others have to say but that doesn’t mean I agree with it, so I respond with my views.  And if I annoy you then you have the ability to ignore me. It won’t hurt my feelings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I already know many of the facts from both sides and when I weight those facts I have decided that eating meat is acceptable. If others decide they don’t want to eat meat that is fine, we have had vegetarians on the crew before with no problem, not sure if any of them may have been vegan. But it is many vegetarians/vegans that want to force others to there point of view. I don’t want any vegetarians or vegans to start eating meat. I just want them to respect my different point of view.<br />
“…weren’t hitler ideas similar to this, regarding the Jewish people?” No not really he used the Jewish people and many other minorities as political scapegoats to explain Germanys’ economic problems. Although to a much smaller and less extreme level Pres. Obama is doing the same thing to the oil, bank and insurance industries.<br />
“If this guy isn’t a paid blogger, he sure has too much free time on his hands to annoy other people without even bothering to ‘listen’ to what they have to say.” I spend about an hour or two a day looking at blogs like this one, and as I have explained before I work in coastal shipping. Most of my work day consists of checking gauges for about 5 minutes every hour, unless something breaks then it is constant work until it is repaired. But the ships I work with currently are all well maintained and fairly new. So my job gives me 45+ minutes of free time every hour. If you meant ‘believe and follow’ when you said ‘listen’ then you have the problem. I ‘listen’ to what others have to say but that doesn’t mean I agree with it, so I respond with my views.  And if I annoy you then you have the ability to ignore me. It won’t hurt my feelings.</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-430057</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-430057</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re aware that with the entire world eating an animal based diet we don&#039;t actually have enough land to raise food for every individual on the planet, are you?

&quot;-  A vegan diet is so beneficial for our planet that eating vegan one day a week does more for the environment than driving a Prius or eating local 365 days a year.

- Animal agriculture uses 37% of all pesticides and 50% of all antibiotics

- Nearly 20% of all global warming emissions come from livestock -that’s more emissions than from all of the world’s transportation combined.

- Animal agriculture takes up nearly 70% of all agricultural land, and 30% of the total land surface of the planet.

- Animal agriculture is the biggest cause of slashing and burning the world’s forests.

- It takes about 300 gallons of water per day to produce food for a vegan, and more than 4,000 gallons of water per day to produce food for a meat-eater. You save more water by not eating a pound of beef than you do by not showering for an entire year.

- Eating one pound of meat emits the same amount of greenhouse gases as driving an SUV 40 miles.

- Food for a vegan can be produced on only 1/6 of an acre of land, while it takes 3 and 1/4 acres of land to produce enough food for a meat-eater. If you add up all the arable land on the planet and divided it equally, every human would get 2/3 of an acre—more than enough to sustain a vegan diet, but not nearly enough to sustain a meat-eater.

- It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce just 1 pound of edible animal flesh. Imagine how many people could be fed if we would eat the grain directly instead of funneling it through animals first.&quot;

If you&#039;d like to talk about diversifying food, how about diversifying how many people are capable of eating on our planet? V

eganism is the most beneficial and responsible choice for our planet, humanity, your own health, and of course, the animals who are currently being slaughtered at a rate of 50 billion a year to satisfy an international blood lust.

I can personally testify to the fact that I&#039;ve never eaten such a diverse group of foods until I went vegan. It is arguably the most diverse diet there is.

As for you Jae - since you clearly are not concerned with the health of our planet, the delicate and important balance of ecological diversity in nature (which we are destroying exponentially), or the survival of our species - what exactly are you doing following a pro-vegan, pro-environmentalism and pro-humanitarianism blog?

Certainly would make most question your motives here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re aware that with the entire world eating an animal based diet we don&#8217;t actually have enough land to raise food for every individual on the planet, are you?</p>
<p>&#8220;-  A vegan diet is so beneficial for our planet that eating vegan one day a week does more for the environment than driving a Prius or eating local 365 days a year.</p>
<p>- Animal agriculture uses 37% of all pesticides and 50% of all antibiotics</p>
<p>- Nearly 20% of all global warming emissions come from livestock -that’s more emissions than from all of the world’s transportation combined.</p>
<p>- Animal agriculture takes up nearly 70% of all agricultural land, and 30% of the total land surface of the planet.</p>
<p>- Animal agriculture is the biggest cause of slashing and burning the world’s forests.</p>
<p>- It takes about 300 gallons of water per day to produce food for a vegan, and more than 4,000 gallons of water per day to produce food for a meat-eater. You save more water by not eating a pound of beef than you do by not showering for an entire year.</p>
<p>- Eating one pound of meat emits the same amount of greenhouse gases as driving an SUV 40 miles.</p>
<p>- Food for a vegan can be produced on only 1/6 of an acre of land, while it takes 3 and 1/4 acres of land to produce enough food for a meat-eater. If you add up all the arable land on the planet and divided it equally, every human would get 2/3 of an acre—more than enough to sustain a vegan diet, but not nearly enough to sustain a meat-eater.</p>
<p>- It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce just 1 pound of edible animal flesh. Imagine how many people could be fed if we would eat the grain directly instead of funneling it through animals first.&#8221;</p>
<p>If you&#8217;d like to talk about diversifying food, how about diversifying how many people are capable of eating on our planet? V</p>
<p>eganism is the most beneficial and responsible choice for our planet, humanity, your own health, and of course, the animals who are currently being slaughtered at a rate of 50 billion a year to satisfy an international blood lust.</p>
<p>I can personally testify to the fact that I&#8217;ve never eaten such a diverse group of foods until I went vegan. It is arguably the most diverse diet there is.</p>
<p>As for you Jae &#8211; since you clearly are not concerned with the health of our planet, the delicate and important balance of ecological diversity in nature (which we are destroying exponentially), or the survival of our species &#8211; what exactly are you doing following a pro-vegan, pro-environmentalism and pro-humanitarianism blog?</p>
<p>Certainly would make most question your motives here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jae</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-430030</link>
		<dc:creator>Jae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-430030</guid>
		<description>If meat eating were bad for you Eskimos would have died out.

Enough Vegan sanctimony already! 
We&#039;re in the middle of a food diversity crisis!
Why are we listening to idiots trying to further restrict and exacerbate food diversity?

We need to be eating a much wider variety of crops and animals not less.

Ecology over animal protest industry agit-prop please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If meat eating were bad for you Eskimos would have died out.</p>
<p>Enough Vegan sanctimony already!<br />
We&#8217;re in the middle of a food diversity crisis!<br />
Why are we listening to idiots trying to further restrict and exacerbate food diversity?</p>
<p>We need to be eating a much wider variety of crops and animals not less.</p>
<p>Ecology over animal protest industry agit-prop please.</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-429989</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-429989</guid>
		<description>I agree 100%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree 100%.</p>
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		<title>By: Whoever...</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-429961</link>
		<dc:creator>Whoever...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 17:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-429961</guid>
		<description>Why do you guys pay any kind of attention to people like the ddpalmer character? Just ignore him!

You&#039;re wasting your time and energy because people like that are not interested in knowing the facts from both sides or accepting different points of view.

They don&#039;t have an open mind and are not willing to change their little world of illusion where everything is great and where humans are the superior and special species (weren&#039;t hitler ideas similar to this, regarding the Jewish people?) and thus we can do whatever we want to the planet without expecting any type of consequences...

If this guy isn&#039;t a paid blogger, he sure has too much free time on his hands to annoy other people without even bothering to &#039;listen&#039; to what they have to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do you guys pay any kind of attention to people like the ddpalmer character? Just ignore him!</p>
<p>You&#8217;re wasting your time and energy because people like that are not interested in knowing the facts from both sides or accepting different points of view.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t have an open mind and are not willing to change their little world of illusion where everything is great and where humans are the superior and special species (weren&#8217;t hitler ideas similar to this, regarding the Jewish people?) and thus we can do whatever we want to the planet without expecting any type of consequences&#8230;</p>
<p>If this guy isn&#8217;t a paid blogger, he sure has too much free time on his hands to annoy other people without even bothering to &#8216;listen&#8217; to what they have to say.</p>
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		<title>By: Samantha</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-429580</link>
		<dc:creator>Samantha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-429580</guid>
		<description>Listen, I&#039;m not here to demean your English skills. My point is that it seems awfully inappropriate and hypocritical to accuse me of poor English, when it is clearly not your strong suit.

Semantics and grammar aside, I&#039;m done here. We&#039;re not going to agree, and this is largely becoming a waste of my time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listen, I&#8217;m not here to demean your English skills. My point is that it seems awfully inappropriate and hypocritical to accuse me of poor English, when it is clearly not your strong suit.</p>
<p>Semantics and grammar aside, I&#8217;m done here. We&#8217;re not going to agree, and this is largely becoming a waste of my time.</p>
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		<title>By: ddpalmer</title>
		<link>http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/01/19/moby-questions-author-mark-bittman-about-veganism-and-factory-farming/comment-page-1/#comment-429574</link>
		<dc:creator>ddpalmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ecorazzi.com/?p=23942#comment-429574</guid>
		<description>I admit that my english grammar isn&#039;t perfect, but since English isn&#039;t my first language or even my second I still make errors. I usually try and run my comments through a word processor to check for those errors but sometimes I don&#039;t have the time.

And actually from the many native English speakers from many different countries that I work with, &#039;big boy&#039; is not and English expression. It is an American expression.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit that my english grammar isn&#8217;t perfect, but since English isn&#8217;t my first language or even my second I still make errors. I usually try and run my comments through a word processor to check for those errors but sometimes I don&#8217;t have the time.</p>
<p>And actually from the many native English speakers from many different countries that I work with, &#8216;big boy&#8217; is not and English expression. It is an American expression.</p>
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