by Michael dEstries
Categories: Animals.
Photo: Sea Shepherd

After less than successful numbers from this year’s hunt in the Southern Ocean — thanks in large part to obstructions by the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society — Japan today launched a new effort with a target of killing 260 whales in the Northwest Pacific.

According to the Institute of Cetacean Research, three harpoon and two research ships set sail from three separate ports in Japan with more than 200 crew. Though the fleet has never faced any protest opposition in the Pacific, officials there are taking no chances. “We cannot rule out any possibilities,” said Japan’s Fisheries Agency official Hiroshi Kawamura. “Crews are trained for any contingencies.”

The fleet, led by the Nisshin Maru mother ship, plans to catch 100 minke whales, 100 sei whales, 50 Bryde’s whales and 10 sperm whales before returning in late August.

The hunt comes on the even of the annual IWC meeting on June 21st– where a hard push to lift the ban on commercial whaling is expected to be debated.

via AFP

About Michael dEstries

Michael has been blogging since 2005 on issues such as sustainability, renewable energy, philanthropy, and healthy living. He regularly contributes to a slew of publications, as well as consulting with companies looking to make an impact using the web and social media. He lives in Ithaca, NY with his family on an apple farm.

View all posts by Michael dEstries →
  • AnimuX

    ( Additional information from: http://www.iucnredlist.org )

    * 100 Sei whales – ENDANGERED SPECIES ( Black market trade led to recently busted California restaurant http://www.physorg.com/news190406841.html )

    “Sei whales have been specifically protected from commercial whaling by the International Whaling Commission since 1975 in the North Pacific and 1979 in the southern hemisphere. They have also been protected by the general moratorium on commercial whaling since 1986, although this does not cover catches taken under scientific permit.”

    * 10 Sperm whales – VULNERABLE SPECIES

    “However, commercial whaling at a large scale for this species in the North Pacific and Antarctic within the last three generations (82 years) certainly resulted in a global decline during this period. Commercial whaling for this species has ceased and therefore this population is evaluated under the A1 criterion rather than under the A2-4 criteria. A peer-reviewed publication (Whitehead 2002) provides a model-based estimate of global trend that can be used to evaluate the population under the A1 criterion. The results from that study gave a 6% probability for Endangered, a 54% probability of meeting the Vulnerable category, and a 40% probability of falling into the Near Threatened category. The results suggest little chance that the population would meet the criteria for Endangered or for Least Concern. There is credible and realistic evidence for either the Vulnerable or Near Threatened category. Given that the results give greater probability for at least the Vulnerable category (60%), and that this is the more precautionary category, the species is classified as Vulnerable.”

    50 Bryde’s whales – Listed as Data Deficient by the IUCN

    “An annual catch series totalling over 20,000 whales for the period 1911-87 was estimated by the IWC SC in 1996 (IWC 1997). Since then, some new information has come to light: for example, Kondo and Kasuya (2002) reported that catches of Bryde’s whales by Japanese operations in the Bonin Islands during 1981-87 had been falsely reported as 2,659, in order to keep within catch limits, but that the true total was 4,162. According to a 1995 population assessment by the IWC SC, the population was reduced, in the worst case, by 49% during 1911-96 (IWC 1996). Work on a revised catch series and assessment is in progress (IWC 2007).”

    “The Bryde’s whale was the incidental beneficiary of IWC area restrictions on factory ship whaling that were originally designed to protect the low-latitude winter breeding grounds of other baleen whale species, at a time when the Bryde’s whale was not yet recognised as a distinct species by the whaling industry (Tønnessen and Johnsen 1982). The Bryde’s whale is included in Appendix I of CITES although Japan has held a reservation against this listing since 1983. ”

    100 Common Minke whales – ( Up to 46% from the vulnerable J-Stock according to 2009 DNA study results. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623120846.htm )

    Another 200 or more whales can be expected to be caught as “bycatch” in Japan’s coastal waters according to official reports and DNA study results. Japan has national laws that allow fishermen to keep and sell whales they “incidentally” land as bycatch, thus promoting unregulated coastal whaling.

    “Catches resumed in the North Pacific in 1994 under scientific permit issued by the Government of Japan, and have increased since. The catch in 2006 was 195 from a permit for 220 (Miyashita and Kato 2007).

    Minke whales are subject to some level of incidental catch in fishing gear throughout much of their range, but in most areas the numbers involved are probably not significant. The exceptions are the coasts of Japan and Korea, and possibly China. In particular, the high level of net catches of the Sea of Japan-Yellow Sea-East China Sea population, likely over 200 per year, is a source of concern, which has prompted the IWC SC to conduct an in-depth assessment of this stock. A multinational survey involving the four range states is planned for 2007.”

    • David

      Really nice cut and paste job!

      Congratulations!

      Someday you will actually be able to engage in a discussion rather than just posting copied information. You and winpooh are like a pair of bookends. Of course bookends are relatively useless in a digital world.

      • The Infidel

        yeah, we don’t need dem fancy lernins!

      • From MN, with hope…

        Point with the cut+paste? Do we need to paraphrase everything, when even you pro-whalers either cut+paste things as well, or don’t even say anything, just leave the article there.

      • imforthewhales

        Someday David you will just learn to have a conversation…

    • Mick

      Yet, after all of that, AnimuX fails to mention the 50 or 60 endangered Bowhead whales that America kills every year.

      • Cho cho ma

        The Eskimos kill them though

      • Mick

        Cho cho ma,

        It’s okay if they go extinct as long as the “eskimos” are the ones doing it???

      • Cho cho ma

        No, but their whaling is based on survival, not profit. However I still oppose all whaling and believe the Eskimos need to change as well.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Besides, the Eskimos are victims of consequence. If Russia hadn’t sold America Alaska than no whales would be killed by Americans.

      • David

        Sorry MN but there are tribes in Washington state that have whaled also.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Once more, victims of circumstance. They’re the natives of the area, and the United States of America bought the land they were on. But it isn’t the average Joe out there killing the whales.

      • dragonshade

        You cannot be serious. A few small boats compared a Janese whaling FLEET, pullezzz. At least it’s not lied about, and disguised as “research”. A gew small boats against the desire, goal, and drive to return to full scale commercial whaling. It’s really not hard to understand.

    • dragonshade

      So hilarius when faced with facts they complain about “we want discussion, all you do is copy/paste”, when given discussion they scream… “show us the link”. They then spin in circles, and eventually flame as they can’t fight facts. So old, so sad.

      • David

        Yes dealing with the anti-whalers can be frustrating but we keep trying.

  • Sea Cucumber

    David,

    That’s Animux’s M.O. – he cuts and pastes the most irrelevant garboon from every site that he can think to google and posts it up hoping that someone actually thinks he knows what he’s talking about. He and his puppet-handler Donovan, and some mindless simpleton called WinPooh all do the same thing. I can pretty much guarantee that he doesn’t understand one iota of anything he posts. He can’t discuss anything, or offer an opinion about something unless he has “Google” at his side. Blah, blah, The Cove, blah, blah, The Hump, blah blah. Do you know how many whales die in collisions with ships off the East Coast? No? I didn’t think so. Well, suffice it to say that it’s a LOT. Yet, you and your buddies couldn’t care less about that. Why is that?

    Hey Animux – this is really too bad for you guys, eh? Your posts don’t mean didly-squat here, the Japanese will do what they do because they can LEGALLY do so. What are you going to do? I’ll sum it up for you – NOTHING, that’s what. Your e-petitions don’t mean jack, your pathetic whining behind “FOJ..” doesn’t mean jack. What else you got there, eh, Animux? Nothing. You can’t do a damn thing except rage on a blog site. Yeah, real effective.

    Go back to your “FOJ” site and continue to post your hate over there where no one of any real consequence is going to read it. By the way, how is that whole “Pass the Hat for Pete” thing going? Kind of moot now, huh, since he was cut away like you dumb asses were from the SSCS forum. Sad really… was a little embarrassing though, I would imagine, right? I mean, they cut you dummies away, then they cut Pete away. I would have thought that with “supposedly” half a million members you guys would have more clout?

    • georgina0912

      Yes, they can legally make threatened whales go extinct. Maybe someday they will eat each other when there are no more whales to harpoon.

      • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

        so learn to fly a plane and crash it into their ships, apparently you support that type of direct action rather than working INSIDE the the controlling agency, oh, wait, watson screwed that option for himself didn’t he? All nations of the IWC CONDEMNED him and his actions…
        your use of extreme hyperbole makes you look as stupid as animux, cho cho and from Mn with Idiocy.

      • Mick

        Georgina,

        You stated, “Yes, they can legally make threatened whales go extinct.”

        America, Russia and Greenland are also, according to you, legally making threatened whales go extinct. And Greenpeace, IFAW and SS aren’t doing anything to stop them.

      • Whitefish

        Yes, just like the IWC has routinely and perennially condemned Japan for JARPA/JARPA II, JARPN/JARPN II and their dolphin/porpoise slaughter judged by the IWC to be unsustainable. Japan is going to score a big ZERO this month in Morocco.

      • georgina0912

        Yes, i will not waste my time discussing anything with the likes of you. Also, if Animux, From MN, and Cho Cho are on the side of the whales then i believe i am in good company and the fact that you think i sound stupid, well my friend, that just speaks volumes of the kind of person you are making hasty comments about someone you know nothing about.

        That is my position and i am not going to change it. You can call me whatever you want, still not going to change it. Why don’t you all…go kill a whale yourselves.

      • Mick

        Whitefish,

        “…their dolphin/porpoise slaughter judged by the IWC to be unsustainable.”

        The IWC does not regulate the hunting of small cetaceans such as dolphins and porpises.

        Georgina,

        “That is my position and i am not going to change it.”

        I have a question. It is my understanding that you are anti-whaling. Do you also oppose Aboriginal Subsistence whaling that is carried out by the U.S., Russia, Greenland and St. Vincents & The Grenadines?

    • AnimuX

      Everything in my original post is relevant to the article. Which is more than I can say for your daily tantrums about how much you dislike Sea Shepherd and environmental activism in general.

      These ideologically biased rants are characteristic of a larger negative campaign against Sea Shepherd and those who express support for the organization or anti-whaling sentiment in almost any form. The pathetically predictable commentary is an attempt to deflect from the content of the article in order to engage in repeated personal attacks.

      Regardless, those interested in this article will be well informed as to the targets of Japan’s “Summer Whaling Mission” which include endangered and vulnerable species protected by international agreements that Japan refuses to honor.

    • David

      But nothing in ‘your’ post is yours or original, a simple link to the IUCN red list would have done the same thing.

      And Japan is honoring the agreements they have made. Hunting of all the species in JARPAN II is allowed and legal by those agreements.

      I realize many people don’t like those agreements, but accusing the Japanese and others of violating the agreements isn’t going to get any results. Political pressure on the government to change the laws or pressure to change the attitudes of the countries involoved is the two best ways to bring about change.

      • AnimuX

        The information in the post is relevant specifically to the article and does not prevent anyone who wants to know more from going to the Red List website.

        Japan is not honoring its international obligations under those agreements in good faith. This is not just my opinion. Independent legal panels have agreed on this and the nation of Australia has filed against Japan in the International Court of Justice as well.

        Japan has a long history of violating and subverting whaling regulations including size limits, species protections, seasonal limits, all manner of quotas and even facilitated “pirate whaling” all over the world. (That’s front companies with foreign labor secretly killing whales for the “traditional” purpose of smuggling the unreported meat back to Japanese markets) It’s historical fact confirmed by investigators such as Nick Carter as well as whaling insiders such Isao Kondo.

        The current faux science programs were concocted as an end run around the global moratorium on commercial whaling. (that’s also not just my opinion) The IWC science committee has rejected the research proposals and the IWC itself has almost annually issued resolutions calling on Japan to halt its whaling programs. The year Japan “stopped” whaling for commercial reasons it immediately “started” whaling for “research”. Even Ronald Reagan recognized the ploy and sanctioned Japan in 1988 under the Pelly amendment.

        http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/1988/040688e.htm

      • AnimuX

        Correction: Reagan levied sanctions under Packwood-Magnuson, not Pelly.

    • imforthewhales

      Ah good old seacumber! SO NICE TO SEE YA PAL! What was that prediction you made recently about the new sea shEperd forum not being open to certain peoples? I thought you were supposed to be in the know cucumber! How wrong you were cucmber, how wrong you were.

      NOW YOU HAVE PROVED TO EVERYONE THAT YOU ARE A COMPLETE PATSY!

    • Annie

      Except Winpooh dosen’t provide a link. She copy/pastes as thought the info was her own original thought. You know.Plagerism.

  • Cho cho ma

    Not really, countries dont want to mess with their political and trade relations with an economic power house such as Japan.

  • Cho cho ma

    Erik, maybe if ships burst in to flames then that comment would make sense.

  • Cho cho ma

    Mick, the hunts of those you mentioned are much smaller.

    • Mick

      That’s correct. The U.S. takes an average of 50 whales a year from a total population of around 14,000. That comes out to about 0.35%. In comparison Japan took 856 Minke whales in 2005/06 from a total population of 500,000, using the low estimate. That comes out to about 0.17%. So, as you can see, the Bowhead whales are in more danger of going extinct than the Minke whales.

      • AnimuX

        Of course, Mick fails to mention the fact that whales taken by Alaskan natives are not taken for commercial or scientific purposes. They’re rather taken for subsistence by native groups who actually sustain entire villages on the meat during winter. They also do not go about taking the whales in giant steel ships with a floating factory setup to can whale meat on an assembly line. In fact, there is also no loophole in use to justify the subsistence hunt. It is fully sanctioned by the IWC as opposed to the faux-science hunts conducted by Japan which the IWC almost annually issues resolutions against. So the two hunts are in -no way- comparable.

        Mick also fails to mention that Japan regularly kills endangered species (including 100 Sei whales mentioned above) as part of its hunts. Japan also takes varying amounts of vulnerable Sperm whales, endangered Fin whales and common Minke whales from the vulnerable J-stock. Then, as if this weren’t enough, the bycatch of Japanese fishermen sometimes includes endangered and vulnerable species as well according to the results of DNA studies. And THEN, Japan acts as the world market for endangered whale species by importing the meat of endangered Fin whales killed by Iceland.

        So don’t roll over for this little trick of population percentages and think for a second that Alaskan natives hunting for subsistence are anything like Japanese whalers hunting for canned whale on supermarket shelves. And don’t think for a moment that Mick cares one way or the other. This forum is just another opportunity for this guy to carry on with a negative campaign against Sea Shepherd and environmental activism in general.

      • Mick

        AnimuX,

        “…the fact that whales taken by Alaskan natives are not taken for commercial or scientific purposes. They’re rather taken for subsistence by native groups…”

        “In fact, there is also no loophole in use to justify the subsistence hunt. It is fully sanctioned by the IWC..”

        There are 3 exceptions to the moratorium under IWC rules: Under Objection, Aboriginal Subsistence and Scientific Permit. All are sanctioned by the IWC, legal and allowed under IWC regulations. All are equally valid. If one is a “loophole” than they ALL are “loopholes”.

        A question for you AnimuX. Are you anti-whaling or not? Are you anti-whaling for some groups and purposes and pro-whaling for other groups and purposes?

        In 2008 four countries hunted whales under the Aboriginal Subsistence exception. The U.S. which killed 50 Bowhead whales, Russia which killed 130 Gray whales and 2 Bowhead whales, East and West Greenland which killed 14 Fin whales and 154 Minke whales and St. Vincent & the Grenadines which killed 2 Humpback whales. Greenland also kills one or two Humpback whales from time to time. Depleting whale stocks is depleting whale stocks. Killing whales is killing whales. It doesn’t matter who or why.

        “So don’t roll over for this little trick of population percentages and think..”

        “And don’t think for a moment….”

        That’s right. Follow AnimuX’s advice. Don’t think or research for yourselves. Just believe what watson, he and other people tell you to believe.

      • AnimuX

        Mick returns with another laughable response designed to do anything but discuss the very real fact that Japan is actively subverting international agreements and killing endangered species in the process.

        Deflect and distract and then turn the debate into a charged insult competition – it’s the common tactic used by the ongoing negative campaign against environmental activism.

        Contrary to Mick’s little quip about “ignorance” I highly encourage everyone to read more about the history and current state of whaling.

        Here are some great books to start:
        Men & Whales by Richard Ellis
        Harpoon: Into the Heart of Whaling by Andrew Darby
        Whaling in Japan: Power, Politics, and Diplomacy by Jun Morikawa

      • Mick

        AnimuX,

        “Deflect and distract and then turn the debate into a charged insult competition….”

        Sounds more like you are describing your own posts. By the way, while I will say that I was being sarcastic with my last comment, I was not insulting at all.

        For information about whaling. The IWC’s website is a good place to start.

  • Sea Cucumber

    “Regardless, those interested in this article will be well informed as to the targets of Japan’s “Summer Whaling Mission” which include endangered and vulnerable species protected by international agreements that Japan refuses to honor.”

    You’re about as much an “authority” on such things as I am an authority on being an astronaut. Your copied and pasted commentary is pretty much worthless as you believe whatever word you happen upon and is regurgitated by your buddies. The “sanctions” against Japan in the 80’s were toothless – if you can’t see that then you’re more stupid than I thought. Japan is a strong trade partner and an even stronger military ally. Any “sanctions” levied were done simply to appease the eco-freaks like you for their votes.

    Are the people here supposed to trust and respect someone who claims to be objective and calls the Facebook site “F%&# Off Japan…” his home? How come you’re not hawking that page as the source for all your material? Come on Animux – be proud of your work! Tell the world how you and your demented buddy Donovan like to tell Japan to “F%&# Off” all the time. In case anyone didn’t know, Animux is one of the Morale Officers” at “F%&# Off Japan…” Facebook site. Now THAT’S something to put on the ol’ resume, right?

    http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/2926/animux.jpg

    Where’s all that swagger now, Animux? Go ahead, tell Japan to “F%&# Off” here and now in this blog. I’m sure that you’re really winning over all the Japanese people though!

    If it’s not right to say it here, why is it right anywhere? It isn’t – so why do it?

    Given your credibility issues, why would anyone believe anything you had to say? You never answered the question regarding the whales injured and killed by the hundreds off the East Coast of the US – why don’t you care about those? No answer to that, huh? Maybe because it has nothing to do with Japan, The Hump, or the Cove?

    The bottom line is that the research that the Japanese is doing is legal, like it or not. You don’t like it? Contact your congressman other lawmakers and have them change the laws. Until then, sit down, shut up, and just deal with it.

    • imforthewhales

      Funny to hear you talk about credibility sea cucumber…what a laugh…the sad fact is that you have none.

  • AnimuX

    Sea Cucumber lets loose with another tearfully hilarious tantrum about how much he doesn’t like environmental activism and me in particular. LOL

    You can clearly see the frustration and simple minded condemnation that comes with his singular purpose of attacking environmental activists and distracting from the very important topic of this article which is the many and ongoing abuses of the Japanese government funded whaling programs in the North Pacific and Southern Oceans.

    Thank you for pointing out the largest anti-whaling Facebook group with such an extremely gratifying response. One of the advantages of having such a large group is identifying the very real fact that hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions) all over the world completely and totally object to the Japanese government’s support for the whaling industry. Hundreds of thousands of people are outraged by the insidious subversion of international conservation efforts carried out by the government of Japan and many of them choose to congregate in the illustrious social network known (abbreviated) as FOJLTWA. I encourage anyone who is fervently against whaling and angry about it to join in protest of whaling there. :-)

  • sea shepherd supporter

    Sea Shepherd should deploy the Bob Barker to stop the whalers!!!

    • David

      Well if they meant what they say then the Bob Barker would be on its way to use ‘direct action’ against the Japanese in the North Pacific. But they never have done that. I wonder why?

      • imforthewhales

        Probably because you haven’t donated yet towards another SS ship. So many problems, so few resources.

        *sigh*

  • Sea Cucumber

    Animux,

    Illustrious site? Hundreds of thousands? Please – you’re making the soda come out my nose. Botted memberships are nothing to be proud of. Considering that there are only about a dozen individual posters, and even then, there are quite-obvious duplicate profiles, I wouldn’t be so quick to brag about clear fraud.

    Where in the article does it say anything about abuse by the Japanese government? Sounds like someone has a hateful grudge against the Japanese, eh?

    Hhmm… Let’s look at his track record…

    Animux…

    …References the Cove at every turn….
    …References The Hump at every turn….
    …References the Japanese Governmental abuses that he can’t prove in any way…
    …References Japanese “research fraud” when he can’t prove it…
    …Spends every day researching Japanese issues and how to distort them…
    …Is in no way concerned by the amount of whales hunted anywhere else…
    …Is in no way concerned about the whales killed by shipping in the US…
    …Is not concerned with the tuna population taken by Australia or NZ…
    …Is only concerned with the tuna in the Med as it relates to sending them to Japan…
    …Is the “Morale Officer” of a Facebook site called “F%&# Off Japan….

    Gosh, Animux, what does that sound like to any one else here? I don’t have to say it – everyone already knows.

    So, the question still stands – why should anyone take you seriously? You say you want to relay the facts – well, that’s what I’m doing too. I want them to know where their “facts” are coming from. You sound like your buddy BigBadPete from your OGA forum.. You know him, right? He’s the one who said this….

    “remember the rape of nankin,remember changi,remember the machinegunning of the australian nurses, remember the batann deathmarch, remember the burma railway, remember hellfire pass, remember the comfort women, remember sandarkin, I know my history, its a pity the japs don,t remember,
    I have no love, respect, for this despicable race.”

    “I hate a race that cannibalised and used Australian troops for bayonet practice, and until the truth about what the Imperial army did during world war 2 is taught openly to the japanese people and the whole sordid truth comes to light, I will continue to hate the bastards. For the sake of the innocents who suffered under the heel of the japanese THIS MUST NOT BE FOrGOTTON OR FORGIVEN anymore that what the NAZIS did to the Jews.

    This is your friend and fellow Sea Shepherd supporter! I’m sure they’re proud to have him as a supporter! Sounds like the both of you are fair, objective and open-minded individuals! (cough, cough, yeah, right!)

    LOL – yourself!

    • AnimuX

      And the negative campaign continues with more references to random people that Sea Cucumber is ideologically biased against and therefore has decided to include in his next emotional tirade (about a completely different forum no less).

      Unfortunately, for those attempting to read or discuss the topic of this article, the maniacal rants of anti-environmentalist ideologues continue to attempt to deflect and distract from the issue at hand.

      Japan continues to subvert international agreements through its whaling industry killing endangered and vulnerable species in the process.

      The JARPN II program alone will target:
      100 Endangered Sei whales
      10 Vulnerable Sperm whales
      50 Bryde’s whales
      100 Common Minke whales (many from the vulnerable J-stock)

      Despite numerous IWC resolutions calling on Japan to cease whaling the slaughter continues.

      • Mick

        AnimuX,

        And America will target 60 Endangered Bowhead whales. Russia will target 140 Gray whales. Greenland will target 10 Endangered Fin whales and 150 Minke whales and St. Vincents & The Grenadines will target 2 endangered Humpback whales.

        Oddly enough, these hunts go unopposed by anti-whaling groups such as Greenpeace, IFAW and SS.

      • AnimuX

        …Mick continues to attempt to deflect and distract not only from the topic of this article but from the very real fact that “subsistence” hunts approved by the IWC are not the same as Japan’s “faux-science” hunts for which the IWC almost annually issues resolutions calling on Japan to stop.

        While there is indeed evidence to show that aboriginal subsistence permits are being abused by some nations for commercial profit (which is the hook Mick is looking for – why oh why don’t the sea shepherds go after the native people!), it is still a far cry from the Japanese industrial whaling machinery built to mass produce canned whale meat from endangered species at sea.

        What an unfortunate position to take. Mick attempts to vilify the subsistence hunts of native tribes while simultaneously claiming all criticism of Japan’s faux-science whaling is somehow biased. (a favorite argument of the pro-whaling lobby – if you criticize Japan’s industry you must automatically be racist rather than simply opposed to whaling)

        The reality is that of all of the world’s whaling nations, Japan is the worst offender when it comes to killing whales. Japan takes more whales (large and small – endangered and non-endangered) through its pelagic and coastal hunts (including bycatch) than any other nation in the world. Japan also acts as the world market for whale meat by importing endangered Fin whale meat from Iceland and Minke from Norway.

      • Mick

        AnimuX,

        “..Mick continues to attempt to deflect and distract..”

        Your assumption is incorrect. That is most certainly not my intention. If my posts “deflect and distract” you, it is due to your own mental limitations.

        “Mick attempts to vilify the subsistence hunts of native tribes….”

        You are incorrect about this, as well. I fully support Aboriginal Subsistence hunts.

        “The reality is that of all of the world’s whaling nations, Japan is the worst offender when it comes to killing whales.”

        The reality is you, anti-whaling orgs. and avowed anti-whalers in general continuously denounce and criticize Japan’s whaling while completely ignoring other countries who also kill whales. You, yourself, have posted numerous times on this thread that Japan is killing endangered and vulnerable whales. Yet never once do you mention the other countries who are doing the same thing. You decry the killing of endangered whales by Japan, yet ignore the killing of endngered whales by America. Why? If killing endangered and vulnerable whales is bad, then it shouldn’t matter who kills them or why. If you truly oppose the killing of whales, then you should oppose every country that kills whales equally. Not just Japan.

        In your post you said, “Japan also acts as the world market for whale meat by importing endangered Fin whale meat from Iceland and Minke from Norway.”

        In that statement, you level criticism at Japan for “importing endangered Fin whale meat from Iceland and Minke from Norway.” But you have no criticism for the countries who actually killed the whales. Why?

        Korea catches hundreds of whales as bycatch. So much so that they are building a new factory to process all of that “accidentally” caught whale meat. Korea has been fined by the IWC many times for illegally catching whales. Yet, you never mention that. Why?

        Australia has announced that they are taking Japan to court to stop them from whaling. Supposedly because they are “anti-whaling”. Yet, they make no mention of taking anyone else to court to make them stop whaling. Why?

        Greenpeace, IFAW and HSUS are all supposedly “anti-whaling” yet they do not oppose the killing of endangered and vulnerable whales by native groups. Why?

        On this website I have seen many articles about Japan’s whale hunts. But I have never seen even one article about other countries whale hunts. Why?

        There is a F@#K OFF JAPAN page on FACEBOOK in opposition to Japan’s whale hunt. However, to my knowledge, there are no similar sites opposed to other countries whale hunts. Why?

        The fact that you, anti-whaling orgs. and anti-whalers in general vehemently denounce and attack Japan for killing whales while totally ignoring other countries who kill whales leads me to the conclusion that you are not “anti-whaling” but, in fact, “Anti-Japan whaling”.

      • AnimuX

        Mick curiously states that anti-whalers are all “out to get Japan”. The reality is, all of the commercial whaling nations are, are consistently denounced by and interfered with by anti-whaling organizations.

        In fact, earlier THIS YEAR a group in Norway, Agenda 21, tried to scuttle a whaling ship in its harbor AND a large shipment of endangered Fin whale meat from Iceland was intercepted and confiscated by authorities thanks to efforts from Greenpeace.

        So, you see, this accusation that everybody is anti-Japanese is a lie. It’s just another part of the overall campaign by pro-whalers to demonize environmental activists.

      • David

        Sorry AnimuX the whale meat wasn’t confiscated. It was removed from the ship, so the ship could continue it’s journey, and moved to a secure area where Greenpeace could no longer track it.

        Is it still in Rotterdam or has it completed it’s journey to Japan yet?

      • Mick

        AnimuX,

        “In fact, earlier THIS YEAR a group in Norway, Agenda 21, tried to scuttle a whaling ship in its harbor AND a large shipment of endangered Fin whale meat from Iceland was intercepted and confiscated by authorities thanks to efforts from Greenpeace.”

        “So, you see, this accusation that everybody is anti-Japanese is a lie.”

        You clearly have mis-read my posts. I made no such accusations.

        You used the attack by the eco-terrorist group Agenda 21 as an example of opposition to Norway’s whaling because that was the ONLY action against Norway taken by anyone this year.
        It’s the same for the Greenpeace action, as well. Which was just as much against Japan as it was Iceland. By the way, the whale meat was not confiscated.
        Can you post any examples of actions taken against the whale hunts in America, Russia or Greenland in the past 12 months?

      • AnimuX

        Your continued reference to the whaling conducted by native tribes is completely irrelevant to the topic of this article.

        Whaling conducted by commercial, industrial operations to sell whale meat and other whale based products for profit is NOT the same as whaling for subsistence for villages of native people.

        It’s unfortunate that I must continue to educate you on this subject despite the obvious and inherent differences between these examples.

      • Mick

        AnimuX,

        “Whaling conducted by commercial, industrial operations to sell whale meat and other whale based products for profit is NOT the same as whaling for subsistence for villages of native people.”

        Japan’s, America’s, Norway’s, Russia’s, Iceland’s and Greenland’s whale hunts are the same. They are ALL killing whales. If you are indeed “anti-whaling” you should oppose the killing of whales by everyone. It doesn’t matter who is killing them or why the whales are being killed.

    • AnimuX

      And for the record, I don’t know BigBadPete personally and have no idea what his background is or why he says the things he says. For all I know members of his family were victims of the horrors inflicted upon Pacific nations like Australia by the Japanese military. If this is true then he certainly has a grievance that won’t be resolved in any forum.

      For some, the scars of war (even as far back as WWII) do not heal for many generations.

      Regardless, any statements made by people other than me have nothing to do with me. :-P

  • Mkay

    It does kind of speak for itself.

  • Whoever…

    Why do all of these whaling defenders bother to come to an eco, veg*ism friendly site (as if I didn’t know already) and spew all their pro-whaling propaganda?

    It’s the same as an heterosexual going to a gay site trying to convince homosexual people that they are wrong, insult them and present ‘facts’ against homosexuality! Wouldn’t that be absurd?

    These monsters come here all the time (and then they say we’re the ones who live in our parents’ basement or something or that we’re teenagers!), they insult us, they defend violence (but if we also defend violence, then we’re the violent ones and not them!), they reject all our arguments (only their arguments are valid to them), they don’t accept change and evolution and the only thing they do is spread hatred!

    No wonder many of us just lose it and play their game – well, they’re succeeding in their effort to ruin this site… they’re just like nags that don’t go away no matter what!

    I’ve been coming to this site for a while and I’ve realized many people who used to come here on a regular basis have stopped coming to Ecorazzi because of these assholes. They are increasing in number and take all the fun out of this site! They don’t care about learning, exchanging ideas or debating seriously – their only goal is to make people go away and destroy this site… and they’re doing a pretty good job at it!

    I’ve mentioned this before and apparently many people still refuse to accept this – if we continue to reply to them (I myself have done that a few times because they’re infuriating) they will keep coming and they will end up making people who truly care about this planet go elsewhere and stop coming to Ecorazzi.

    Open your eyes – they’re on the payroll of the Illuminati. How else would you explain that someone has that much time to come to a site only to spread hatred and anger? What do they do for a living? Don’t they work? Don’t they do anything else? Don’t they sleep?

    I’m just saying…

    • Bencat1000

      Whoever,
      So true. We don’t even bother to read the violent hatred that come out of Seacucumber, Mick and David. Killing whales is serious business and we come on to learn about this issue, which AnimuX seems to be really trying to do. The negative commenters have no place here because they serve no purpose in finding solutions and they only make themselves look like ignorant hate-mongers to anyone who attempts to read their comments. For them, it is not about the whales, it is about themselves.

      • Mick

        Bencat1000,

        “We don’t even bother to read the violent hatred that come out of Seacucumber, Mick and David.”

        I think you have me confused with someone else. I don’t see where any of my posts could be considered “violent hatred”.

    • Whitefish

      Holothuroidea, (aka Sea Cucumber)…you and your whaling buddies are nothing but the iron lung trying to keep the whaling industry alive while it dies a slow and insidious death. We all know it is dying, so why continue to submit your country or the country of your parents to the world’s disdain. Do you really want to continue to be lumped together with the Icelanders and Norwegians, countries willing to subvert ICRW, CITES and other international treaties? It’s time to end the charade and rejoin the civilized world.

      BTW, I find AnimuX to be a very knowledgeable and articulate poster. Not only does he provide useful information, he also gives reasoned and well thought out positions. You can learn from him if you want to lose your attitude for a while.

    • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

      whoever trying to be diplomatic now?
      pardon me while I work out this muscle spasm from laughter…

      the same whoever wants to kill any one that opposes its viewpoint?

      yes..I’m part of the illuminati, in control, and now you’ve made the list. say farewell dimwit…

      http://s181454115.onlinehome.us/maroon.wav

      • imforthewhales

        Do you think you tactics are working Erik?

  • Whitefish

    It’s always the same phraseology, isn’t Erik…”pardon me while I work out this muscle spasm from laughter” or “please replace the coffee I just spit all over my screen.” You sure are an unhealthy bunch with uncontrollable reflexes and muscle spasms occurring before every post. Is that a genetic anomaly, a cultural practice or a learned behavior? I vote for a cultural practice.

    • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

      so you support his views on killing those that disagree with him ?
      ok…another notch in the braindead idiot category for whitefish…

      http://s181454115.onlinehome.us/maroon.wav

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1306324129 Leonard Greene

    Just remember folks, you can have a decent discussion, just pay no attention to the pro-whalers as they are here to cause problems, it is their intention.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1306324129 Leonard Greene

      BTW, This is the real Leonard Greene,aka Lenzabi, not that fake ID hack at the NZ news site calling himself “Leonard Green” they may think that was funny, but I have sent word to that admin and will await their reply regarding it.

      • David

        The ‘real’ Leonard Greene you say. And you are the only one right? It is not in the realm of possibility that somewhere in the world there is another person with that name?

        Hmm. There is Leonard Greene the famous inventor (although he is dead) and Leonard Greene the state representative from CT.

        There is Leonard Green the equity investor and Leonard Green the professor of psychology.

        That took 2 minutes with Google, but you are the ‘real’ Leonard Greene. Heck you don’t even use your real name when you post so how would someone have found your name and why would they use Green with no final ‘e’? If I were trying to be funny I would have used the exact name, heck I would have used Lenzabi.

        And you reported what? That some one used a name that happens to be close to yours on a forum/comment section where people use whatever name they want.

    • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

      ohhhhh I get it now, my mistake for not seeing this is just a sycophant site where only anti-whaling comments are to be read or believed.

      • Whitefish

        Erik, do elaborate on your comment that this is a sycophant site. Do you even know what a sycophant is? Your use of the term doesn’t even make sense, but you hear it frequently used by the pro-whalers. What an uneducated clan they are.

      • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

        whitefish, apparently YOU have the problem in understanding.
        in response to: “just pay no attention to the pro-whalers as they are here to cause problems”

        in other words, you dont listen to them, they are all wrong, ignore facts, links, truth, anything else so that we all agree…

        yes..perfectly defines sycophancy

        makes you just another ignorant dimwit eh? join up with that idiot from Mn

  • Mkay

    It is kind of hard to ignore the postings of anti-whalers that really are racist. They don’t like to hear it but it is there – i have seen it many times in the forums.

  • sstanfield

    Both are wrong… the Japanese need to stop killing whales for the meat and the Sea Shepards need to stop doing things that could harm the whalers… i know the Sea Shepards are doing this only because of the Japanese but they need to stop dangerous tactics… these ships are big and heavy…

  • Elle

    I think the focus for all the pro-whalers out there is that we’re killing sentient beings capable of love and fear, playfulness and suffering. Regardless of the country committing these murders: the U.S., Iceland, Norway, Japan, etc., or their reasons, the needless agony these whales endure is inhumane and cruel, no ifs, ands, or buts.

    And before I’m harpooned by some very sensitive whaling-mongerers, I don’t place a large quantity of the blame on the citizens of these countries; I mostly blame their governments. For them, money is key, and as it was once said, “The love of money is the root of all evil.” Unfortunately, those that sanction the killings of these whales don’t see them as anything but cash cows, better served on their plates and mixed with their tonics than beautiful creatures that play a large part in the continued health of our planet.

    They, and I mean every country that has participated in the massacre of the various species of whale, think of whales as only commodities meant to be caught, killed, packaged, and delivered. It’s not based on survival. It’s not based on the respect and gratitude our ancestors may have felt towards the whales as providers of sustenance; it’s about greed and indifference.

    So instead of having endless arguments about who hates Japan, who has a grudge against Japan, that Japan is the ONLY country that engages in the mass murder of whales(which, as we’ve learned, it is not), let’s think about the fact that the whales spend their agonizing last moments on the ends of increasingly specialized tools of tortuous death for nothing but the avarice of the people that hunt them. Think about that before anyone rants about the legality of whaling. Death in the name of profit has no legal (in my opinion) or moral standing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1306324129 Leonard Greene

      Very well put Elle.

      • Elle

        Thank you. ^_^

    • David

      Obviously any meat you buy was killed for profit, so that is out. And any plant based food you buy involved clearing land and killing the animals that once lived there and killing animals that try and eat the growing crops, so buying that is out. That leaves hunting and gathering you own food or being a Breatharian and living on air and sunshine.

      • Elle

        Actually, I don’t eat meat, so I don’t contribute to lining the pockets of factory farmers, I try and only purchase organically and sustainably grown produce, and I absolutely abhore anyone clear-cutting forests or wiping out animal populations just to feed the cows, chickens, turkeys that end up on your plates. I don’t even eat seafood because of all the damage it does to the ocean and its inhabitants.

        So what exactly is the point of your comment? If you don’t like what’s being said here, why bother posting? What is your goal? The people congregated here are expressing their disgust and anger at the merciless murder of these whales in one of the cruelest ways possible: death by harpoon. I’m sure if this were happening to people, you, and every other like-minded individual, would be screaming for justice. Why so indifferent to the plight of the whales? Is it because they can’t talk? Can’t beg for their lives? What do you find so justifiable in what these countries are doing?

        Maybe seeing a whale hunt up close, or even taking a blood spattered stroll through your local slaughter house would give you a more humbling and horrified perspective. But then again…you’ll probably say you don’t want or need to do something like that because seeing the deed done wouldn’t affect you. You’re the human, they’re the animal, and they deserve to die for our pleasure. I almost feel sorry for you. But I feel sorrier for the animals.

      • David

        So you buy crops, meaning you contribute to the death of animals in the name of profit, which you claim has no legal or moral standing. So you are a hypocrite.

        I spent time on my Grandfather’s farm while growing up and I say animals slaughtered. So yes I can be pretty sure a slaughter house won’t affect me.

    • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

      poor elle, to live in such a world that you abhor.
      Now for reality, care to back up your assertions now?
      1. “we’re killing sentient beings.” : peer reviewed, you know, REAL SCIENCE
      2. “capable of love and fear, playfulness and suffering.” : like most ANY animal ? even rats? shrews? sloths? more mumbo jumbo in the name of anthropomorphism, and to tug at heartstrings because of the LACK of facts.
      You can choose as you wish to deny your body what it has grown, through evolution, to depend on. When it comes to others, you have no say.

    • Mick

      Elle,

      “Regardless of the country committing these murders: the U.S., Iceland, Norway, Japan, etc., or their reasons, the needless agony these whales endure is inhumane and cruel, no ifs, ands, or buts.”

      Yet anti-whaling orgs. and anti-whalers in general take no action to oppose the killing of whales by America, Russia and Greenland. Why is that? Why doesn’t HSUS get Pierce Brosnan to write Obama to stop the killing of whales by America? Why doesn’t Greenpeace hold rallies and send petitions to oppose the slaughter of whales by Greenland and Russia? Why doesn’t Ecorazzi post articles about the cruel murder of whales by America? Why isn’t there a F@*k off Russia page on Facebook for anti-whalers to rail against the slaughter of whales by Russia? Why isn’t Australia, that claims to be anti-whaling, taking action to force America to stop killing whales? Why aren’t avowed anti-whalers posting their opposition to the slaughter of endangered whales by America on this and other internet sites? The fact that anti-whaling orgs. and anti-whalers in general focus their efforts and wrath on Japan while ignoring other countries who also are killing endangered and vulnerable whales leads me to believe that they are not “anti-whaling” but, in fact, “anti-Japan whaling”.

      • AnimuX

        Mick repeatedly states that anti-whalers are all “out to get Japan”. The reality is, all of the commercial whaling nations are consistently denounced by and interfered with by anti-whaling organizations.

        In fact, earlier THIS YEAR a group in Norway, Agenda 21, tried to scuttle a whaling ship in its harbor AND a large shipment of endangered Fin whale meat from Iceland was intercepted and confiscated by authorities thanks to the efforts of Greenpeace.

        So, you see, this accusation that everybody is anti-Japanese is a lie. It’s just another part of the overall campaign by pro-whalers to demonize environmental activists.

      • David

        Sorry AnimuX the whale meat wasn’t confiscated. It was removed from the ship, so the ship could continue it’s journey, and moved to a secure area where Greenpeace could no longer track it.

        Is it still in Rotterdam or has it completed it’s journey to Japan yet?

  • Chris

    If the income that supports my family is in danger, I will do whatever I can to protect it.

    Instead of protecting whales go save some starving human beings in other countries.

    Sea Shepherd, a disgrace.

    Chris

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1306324129 Leonard Greene

      There are already groups out there taking care of feeding humans and helping them with medicine and other needs. all of the world’s whales combined would not come close tot he massive population that is Mankind, and while we have militaries and other institutions to protect us, the whales only have a scant few looking out for them. Let the corporations have their way and there will eventually be nothing left to appreciate, we will all be eating whatever they have come up with to eat(Genetically engineered, and unsafe crop based foods, and who knows what other garbage) and likely dying ourselves anyway. but oh well, why worry eh?

      • Elle

        Hey Leonard…Think if we ignore them, they’ll go away? I’ve tried that principle on other bullies and it appeared to work, but these guys seem like sticky bur: irritating and hard to get rid of.

        It’s interesting that people only hear what they want to hear.

        We say: Whaling is a barbaric and heartless practice.

        They hear: Japan sucks! or Supporting families is wrong!

        I got an idea. Let’s only comment to each other and maybe eventually they’ll realize that we deeply care about this planet and we won’t change our opinions to suit their “kill whatever we want ’cause we’re humans” argument, and they’ll get bored and leave. Am I being too hopeful Leonard?

      • David

        No Elle, you are too naive.

        If most of the people in the world actually felt like you then whaling laws would change and whaling would be stopped. The banning of DDT and CFCs are examples of public opinion and pressure stopping potentially harmful policies.

        Whaling hasn’t been stopped or made completely illegal, so that would indicate that the majority of the world either doesn’t agree with you or they don’t believe it is important enough to act on. Therefore the anti-whalers need to convince those people to change their opinions.

        Getting together with a bunch of people who all already believe like you and discussing how smart and correct you are will not change the minds of the people who don’t agree with you because you want to exclude them from the discussion.

        Will the Israel-Palestine conflict be resolved by either side alone? No, they need to get together and work out the problems so they both agree to whatever plan is arrived at.

        So if you want to stop whaling then you need to discuss and argue with the people who disagree with you. If you just want to pat yourselves on the back and say how ethical and moral you are, then you will never get one step closer to stopping whaling.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1306324129 Leonard Greene

    Elle, I do agree with you. If the Trolls had anything truly constructive to add to the discussion, I might listen but thus far all they seem to want ti to annoy folks, just like sticky burs or Psoriasis. If they actually upset you, or anyone else here, then do not let yourselves fall into their little verbal traps that they sew about the site discussions like land mines.

    Too bad they cannot understand how the small minority of whaling nations have been pressuring the rest of the world to see things their way, just because they either throw temper tantrums, make economic threats or go and play by themselves and hunt in objection to the moratorium, or use the thinly veiled guise of “research” to take advantage of a loophole. Now in most cases, I have found that when an organization or company discovers such practices, they amend or print a new edition to address the loophole by……Closing it, and NOT rewarding the ones abusing it.

    We could hope that eventually these lonely, bored and disruptive personalities afflicting eco sites like rats on ship will go away, but it may take some time, But yes, if they make anyone angry, or upset, then ignore or do not reply to them.

  • Whitefish

    David, your main argument is somewhat superfluous. Why? Because a significant majority of the world’s population are against whaling. So why do we need to spend time trying to convince a small minority? We just need to solve this little problem called Japan Fisheries Agency (a truly corrupt government agency), and the few people that are profiting from inhumane practices and the selling of toxic meat.

    • David

      Whitefish, your main argument is laughable. Why? Because if a significant majority of the world’s population were against whaling and felt it was an important issue they would change the laws to completely ban it and plug all the loopholes. So obviously your premise is incorrect.

      • Whitefish

        David, don’t be such a simpleton. You are aware of the expose on Japan’s recent bribery attempts? Here’s an excerpt:

        “A SUNDAY TIMES investigation has exposed Japan for bribing small nations with cash and prostitutes to gain their support for the mass slaughter of whales.

        The undercover investigation found officials from six countries were willing to consider selling their votes on the International Whaling Commission (IWC).

        The revelations come as Japan seeks to break the 24-year moratorium on commercial whaling. An IWC meeting that will decide the fate of thousands of whales, including endangered species, begins this month in Morocco.”

        With revelations such as this, that Japan is willing to go to any length to subvert international treaties, it is no small wonder whaling still occurs in opposition to world opinion. So your argument holds no water, sorry.

      • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

        whitefish
        you poor simpleton…
        if the practice of swaying votes with money (or any other tangible or intangible object) is wrong, show us where it is wrong. The US tried it in 1986 and quickly reneged on the deal it made regarding Japans vote on the moratorium and fishing rights. You seem to overlook that after the failed vote in 1973 for a moratorium, the IWC membership increased from 14 members to 37 membes, primarily non whaling nations like Switzerland, China, Belize… all enticed to join by promises of goods from private individuals, NGO’s, and other nations. Some of these dues were paid by non nationals and even their representative was provided by non nationals.
        I sugggest you go ask your politicians how they work out concessions…hmmm could it be quid pro quo?. You can call it bribery if you want, you’ll just be a bigger fool for doing so…

      • David

        Eric is 100% correct. The anti-whalers started the ‘bribery’ in the late 70s early 80s.

        And although Whitefish seems pretty naive about how politics and government works. Countries tend to give more aid to countries that have the same outlook and ideas as they do and who back their policies.

        The US gives more aid to Israel than to Cuba although Cuba probably has more need for aid. Why do you suppose that is Whitefish? Maybe is it because Israel has similar interests and policies as the US while Cuba’s interests and policies are much different? Or maybe is it that Israel has something or can do things that the US wants? And how many times have you seen in the papers where the US will threaten to cut aid to Israel when Israel makes plans to do something the US doesn’t approve of?

        What Japan is doing is Western politics which they were taught after WWII.

      • Whitefish

        It seems only the simpletons are unconcerned by this revelation. Even the Japanese are denying it for fear of the political fallout. If it is as you say, just western style politics, why are they denying it? As I have already stated, The Japanese, Iceland and Norway are going to score a BIG zero come June 21st.

      • http://s181454115.onlinehome.us Erik

        it actually seems that the simpletons are the nes trying to make some kind of ssue out of this “non” issue. Since they deny the allegations,why don’t you show everyone the PROOF.
        You’ll still be an idiot
        You’ll still be a fool

        and it matters not, except in your pea brain.

      • Whitefish

        Erik,

        I think the only ones that think it is a non-issue are the Japanese conspirators and the AP forum gang of nine. Did you catch this little news tidbit?

        “Britain’s minister for the marine environment, Richard Benyon, said: ‘These are serious allegations and I’m sure the IWC will wish to look at them more closely.”

  • Elle

    Thank you Leonard, for your supportive comments. Unfortunately, even though, like Whitefish says, a vast majority of the population is against whaling, the minority that just doesn’t care hold positions of power and are very good at peddling propanda in favor of their disturbing and grotesque war against whales.

    The saddest thing, I think, is the apathy prevelent among the masses; what does it take to see that despite all the progress we’ve made in society, we’re more inclined to destroy than to nurture, more adept at eradicating what we deem unimportant than saving something that has more of a place in this world than us.

    Everyone has their theory on evolution, on creation, but whatever you belive, I don’t think we were meant to turn the animals we share this planet with into meat on an assembly line, or trophies on a wall, or unwilling experiments. We do these things without remorse, without thinking twice about our actions.

    But education is the key. David is right about one thing: we need to keep talking to people, reaching as many as possible with information they need to know, engaging them in informative debates, and encouraging them to connect with others all over the world; maybe then we’ll have a loud enough voice to stop these senseless deaths from continuing. I know it’s a little preachy and will take time to accomplish, but, I want to be optimistic here and spread that feeling around. I’m just tired of all the death, as every one here against whaling must be as well. Change for the better isn’t easy, but it’s not impossible. We can save the whales. I just hope it happens before the damage is irreversible.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1306324129 Leonard Greene

      You are welcome Elle. True enough, this onslaught against the whales, these past 23yrs has been the long run in practicing what it would take for these killers to get the right tools and words together so that they could bully their way to a slipping off of the moratorium, because once that supposedly 10yr period ended, then they could argue “well, you allowed that much whaling, now to see how well we can manage on a larger quota or another 10yrs”, and then the moratorium is voted to be ended.

      People are so apathetic due to their own personal needs bubble being fulfilled, and the consumerist concept is the never ending need for more items that are not actually needed but we get bombarded by ads that insinuate that life sucks without the item for sale. Until we can figure a new way of seeing the world on a more “We need to keep this place working” mentality, as opposed to “Gotta get that” mindset, then we have an uphill struggle. Education is key, persistent education is the real big key.

      Meanwhile, these people who come here defending such actions as whaling do not get it yet as they are still, for the most part, stuck in their little warm and fuzzy cocoons as mentioned in the above paragraph and are just looking at that cocoon or bubble about to be ripped away by such thoughts.

      It’s kind of weird for me to use the analogy, but the one guy in the Matrix that betrayed the others? he did so because he liked the illusion of comfort and living he had as a pod inhabitant. He preferred the illusion that his paste was a steak, and not a grey porridge. That illusion as applied in this world of consumerism we find ourselves in is a growing thing, nurtured by corporate interest seeking profit t any costs.

      Damage is happening now, whales are being hunted, oil is gushing into our waters, mercury is dumped in places, the list is a large one and I think that we need to work at helping it be stopped so that things can get back in balance before it all tips into the abyss of mass extinction for all.

    • David

      Elle, for at least 10 years from about 1984 to about 1995 the anti-whalers had the votes in the IWC to pass any changes they wanted. That is how the moratorium and Antarctic sanctuary were passed. So they could have deleted Article VIII and banned research whaling, but obviously they didn’t.

      If the majority was really against any whaling again ever, then why when they had the power didn’t they close all the holes and completely ban whaling?

      They must have had some good reason.

      And since Japan had started increased whaling under Article VIII in 1987, it isn’t like they didn’t know that Japan would use Article VIII in that way because they had been doing so for at least 7 years before the sanctuary was established (which specifically doesn’t apply to Article VIII whaling) when they still had the votes to pass anything over Japanese objection.

      So can you give me a reason they didn’t?

      • Elle

        People can be bought. Not all people, those totally dedicated and passionate about saving whales, but it is a sad fact that money can buy souls. It’s that simple. Those members may have been against whaling publicly, but behind closed doors, who knows how much money changed hands and purchased votes. Not everything is as transparent as we’d like.

        And Leonard was right: people always want more, so it’s not hard to imagine the controling members of the IWC having a price for their loyalty. You may think that’s a bit over the top, delusional, or paranoid, but don’t we see that kind of thing with our politicians and special interest groups? Don’t we see Big Oil stuffing its blood money into politician pockets, insidiously whispering for their compliance while it does its dirty work? So it can’t be too surprising that whaling nations would do whatever they could, bribe as many people they can to keep their mass killing sprees intact.

        There is no “good reason” to keep whaling alive. You and several others may think there is, may think you’re justified in your reasons, but you’re defending death. Death for whales already battling a changing climate and dwindling food supplies. Death for us too, if we keep chugging full speed with our, as Leonard said, “consumerist concept.”

      • David

        You are right Elle.

        So why don’t you think that the anti-whalers are just as likely to buy votes?

      • Eli

        I don’t agree with bribery, especially when it’s used to aid in continued bloodshed. If the anti-whalers did try to buy votes, I’d say it’s not a good idea either, primarily because the people they bribe–ones that may be pro-whaling or are indifferent to the tragedy of it all–are giving their votes for money, not because they believe what’s going on is wrong; any whaling nation could swoop in and drop more cash and hookers in the laps of these members, resulting in lost votes against whaling, perpetuating a vicious circle of each side competing to buy votes. In the end, the whales lose. I think what we’re doing and what other anti-whalers are doing can be better in the long run. I’d rather get a vote by turning the misguided opinions of these members with good old fashioned informative debate than buy them off.

        That said, if the anti-whalers felt they had no other choice to save these whales, that time had run out to persuade the members through negotiations and talks in keeping the moratorium intact, I’m not going to object. May sound hypocritical of me, and you’ll probably attack every aspect of my comment, but when it comes to saving lives, I’ll hang up my anti-bribery hat for a little while.

  • Cho cho ma

    I dont understand how people like Sea Cucumber and David can defend all of these cruel actions against animals. They do nothing more than support the greed of humans, and destruction of life on this planet.

  • Mick

    dragonshade,

    “You cannot be serious. A few small boats compared a Janese whaling FLEET, pullezzz. At least it’s not lied about, and disguised as “research”.”

    However, the fact remains that Americans are indeed killing endangered whales. The difference between them killing whales and Japan killing whales is that anti-whaling orgs. and people who are anti-whaling say and do nothing to stop it. If they were truly against the killing of whales, as they claim, it wouldn’t matter who was killing them, why they were killing them or how many they were killing.

  • Sea Cucumber

    Animux,

    After careful consideration, I have decided to join you. Given your amazing example at identifying the issue and prioritizing, which I’ll remind everyone here of.

    For those that missed it, here are some tidbits about Animux. He’s shy and doesn’t like to take credit for his work….

    Animux…
    …References the Cove at every turn….
    …References The Hump at every turn….
    …References the Japanese Governmental abuses that he can’t prove in any way…
    …References Japanese “research fraud” when he can’t prove it…
    …Spends every day researching Japanese issues and how to distort them…
    …Is in no way concerned by the amount of whales hunted anywhere else…
    …Is in no way concerned about the Right Whales killed by shipping in the US…
    …Is not concerned with the tuna population taken by Australia or NZ…
    …Is only concerned with the tuna in the Med as it relates to sending them to Japan…
    …Is the “Morale Officer” of a Facebook site called “F%&# Off Japan….
    …Is the Admin at a “Ban Japan” Facebook site…

    Now, his buddy BigBadPete says the following….

    “remember the rape of nankin,remember changi,remember the machinegunning of the australian nurses, remember the batann deathmarch, remember the burma railway, remember hellfire pass, remember the comfort women, remember sandarkin, I know my history, its a pity the japs don,t remember,
    I have no love, respect, for this despicable race.”

    “I hate a race that cannibalised and used Australian troops for bayonet practice, and until the truth about what the Imperial army did during world war 2 is taught openly to the japanese people and the whole sordid truth comes to light, I will continue to hate the bastards. For the sake of the innocents who suffered under the heel of the japanese THIS MUST NOT BE FOrGOTTON OR FORGIVEN anymore that what the NAZIS did to the Jews.

    This is his friend. Animux says that this is OK because he doesn’t know him personally, even though he has posted with him for years. However, anyone critical of their actions or Paul Watson gets banned pretty much immediately, but saying stuff like the above is perfectly fine to Animux! They sound like two peas in a pod to me!

    Now, after thinking about this – Animux is right. I’m joining the F%&# Off Japan Facebook site! I want to tell them to F%&# Off every day like they do! As a matter of fact, I’m joining the letter writing campaign to help Pete Bethune! We’re going to write him and tell Japan to F%&# Off in every letter! It will be on the envelopes and in the text so everyone knows that we support Pete and we’re telling Japan to F%&# Off like Animux and his buddy BigBadPete and Donovan! As a amatter of fact, I’ll even include some of BigBadPate’s tidbits as well.

    We can write Pete at the following:

    Peter Bethune
    Tokyo Detention Centre
    1-35-1A Kosuge Katsushika Ku
    124-0001
    Tokyo
    Japan
    Prisoner 2406

    Yessireee Bob, we’re going to show those bastards that we mean business, eh, Animux? By the way, I was able to get a “few more” than the 4-5 people you got to respond to your discussion. Yup, they’ll know that we’re telling them all to F%&# Off when they read Pete’s letters. I’m sure that this will help him, don’t you? I mean, it’ll make the guards and other prisoners really happy to hear that we support Pete and that they can all F%&# Off, and that Pete can count on the support of the F%&# Off Japan site! I wish I could be there to see the guards faces when they read them!

    Thanks, Animux!

    • AnimuX

      Once again Sea Cucumber attempts to distract and deflect from the article itself with another long tirade. (Especially about FOJLTWA)

      Of course, in his efforts to attack me rather than discuss the article he continues with the lie that anti-whalers, like me, are somehow anti-Japanese.

      He doesn’t mention that I’m also a member of FOILTWA and FONLTWA. Similarly named anti-whaling Facebook groups focused on Iceland and Norway.

      Then he goes on to allege that I am somehow anti-Japanese because someone I don’t personally know on another forum made statements about Japan’s WWII crimes against humanity.

      You can clearly see the object of his presence here is not to discuss issues about whaling. He’s simply out to demonize environmental activists.

  • coocoo

    I have a question for the pro-whalers here.

    Firstly, I must admit that I am against whaling, but honestly, I’m not that passionate about it, and I disagree with a lot of what the anti-whalers (and pro-whalers) say.

    My question is this: out of all the causes, and all the things that you could be doing with your time, why do you choose to come here and argue with a bunch of hippies over whales? Yes, these hippies often have their facts wrong. Yes, I can see how they might be mildly annoying, but I just cannot fathom why anyone would care enough to tirelessly come here and debate them. Out of all the injustices and troubles of the world, are you really that offended that some commercial whaling operation is being opposed?

    Please, this is not intended as an accusation. It is an honest question. I’m completely stumped.

    • Whitefish

      Actually, the question of the day is why are you here?

      • David

        Typical anti-whaler won’t even attempt to answer a question just attacks the questioner.

        To answer the question for myself, as I expect everyone has their own reasons. It really doesn’t take much of my time, I usually read and respond while I am on hold for calls or waiting for some data runs to complete. There are other issues I spend much more time and energy on, currently power and clean water for isolated villages in Africa, which actually ties in with my job as you have to find the water before you can extract it. Then you need the power with which to extract and filter it.

        But proving most of the anti-whaler lies wrong can be done on auto-pilot and watching them start flailing about with the ad hominem attacks and straw men is fairly amusing.

  • imforthewhales

    Great work seacucumber…you should razzle and dazzle those Japanese whaling freaks right out of the water. Welcome aboard!

  • Mkay

    Regarding the racist comments it seems pretty clear to me. That kind of stuff is never going to help the cause.

  • imforthewhales
  • Sea Cucumber

    Imaufo,

    Hey, what’s up, dude? Is it me, or is that woman in that video kind of like Darryl Hannah from “Blade Runner”?

  • http://www.promo-cadouri.ro david C

    I hate what these people do to nature. Killing animals and cutting trees all over the planet. They don’t think at consequences at all. Maybe they should think at their children future…