adygil21
by Michael dEstries
Categories: Animals, Causes
Tags: .

Ever since the Sea Shepherd’s Ady Gil sank after a collision with a Japanese whaling vessel this past January, talk of a replacement for the high-tech speedboat has remained steady. With a top speed somewhere around 50 knots, the ship gave the anti-whaling org a definite advantage in chasing down vessels and blocking their attempts to kill whales.

With passions running high after the sinking, the real Ady Gil immediately pledged to build a successor to his lost boat. “We have the designs, we have the mould, and Peter Bethune, who designed and built the boat, is quite prepared to rebuild it,” he said.

While rebuilding may financially not be possible (estimated at between $3-$5 million), could an existing ship fit the bill? A now-deleted comment on Paul Watson’s private Facebook page seems to point toward this direction.

“Sea Shepherd has acquired a new fast vessel to replace the Ady Gil,” the post read this past weekend. “The name will be posted once registration and reflagging is completed. This vessel will bring the fleet to four once again along with the Steve Irwin, Bob Barker and Sirenian (based in the Galapagos). Thank-you to all the fans and supporters that have made this possible.”

Hours after it was deleted, the UK Facebook site for the Sea Shepherd dismissed the rumors; saying that “[We] have not acquired a new fast vessel to replace the Ady Gil. We are working on a vessel to take to the Gulf, but it is not a fast boat like the Gil.”

I also contacted Paul Watson, who wrote to say that the Ady Gil will be replaced, but not yet.

So, we’ll keep waiting. Perhaps like the Bob Barker’s surprise entrance last winter, the successor to the Ady Gil will make herself known through subterfuge.

Wouldn’t it be fitting if the captain of the Shonan Maru No.2 was the first to break the news of her existence?

About Michael dEstries

Michael has been blogging since 2005 on issues such as sustainability, renewable energy, philanthropy, and healthy living. He regularly contributes to a slew of publications, as well as consulting with companies looking to make an impact using the web and social media. He lives in Ithaca, NY with his family on an apple farm.

View all posts by Michael dEstries →
  • Hufingraz

    Instead of black, they should paint it with pictures of seaweed, sand and rocks, and crabs so it matches the first one! Lol! The big question is whether Paul Watson is going to beg Bob Barker or Ady Gil for the millions for this new boat!

    • Rick in Kansas

      Mikay

      You’re saying the Ady Gil DROVE INTO THE SIDE OF THE SM2?

      Have you watched ANY of the footage? The AG was simply idling and crew were actually OUTSIDE the boat at the time… How could an impact to the SIDE of the AG from the BOW of the SM2 possibly show the AG DROVE INTO IT?

      Seriously… Explain the physics of this being possible. It’s one thing to support the whalers or hate environmentalists, but don’t be stupid…

      • David

        One of the crew was inside at the controls. He panicked and hit forward rather than reverse. The extremely poor view from inside the Ady Gil probably didn’t help.

      • Imforthewhales

        From what I was able to gather, the Ady Gil did not have a reverse, and the only way to get out of the way, was to go forward.

        I am also not entirely sure that there was anyone inside the ship at all, most of the crew seemed to be sitting outside the vessel.

        Where did you get your information from David? from your writing on the matter, it sounds as if you were there in person?

      • David

        I rely on the words of the people who were there.

        They Ady Gil had a reverse.

        One crewman was in the cockpit during the collision.

      • Imforthewhales

        So now you are relying on the words of Sea Shepherd?

        Wonders never cease.

        I don’t recall any of the crew saying that view was poor out the windows.

        However there was some mention somewhere that the Ady Gil was not that great at going backwards…and didn’t have a reverse gear…as well as having a huge turning circle due to her three hulls…. which meant that when the Japanese ship aimed her up in her sights, there was little they could do to get away in time.

      • David

        We have seen video from inside the cockpit. I don’t have to hear the crew say something that I can see for myself.

        There are also videos showing the Ady Gil turning on a dime. So the huge turning circle is a lie.

      • Imforthewhales

        I’m afraid i am yet to see the wonders of that video from inside the cockpit.
        I just hope that the camera was not a long way from the windows. Just like a camera, a small aperture can give a wide angle of view, if you get my drift.

        I have not seen any videos of the Ady Gil turning on a dime, ( please feel free to post any links…it will be fascinating viewing, i’m sure) except of course when it got hit by that Mack truck the Japanese whalers were driving. It seemed to have a pretty good turning circle then didn’t it?

      • David

        Actually the videos don’t show the Ady Gil rotating much at all when it was hit.

        And here is one video showing the Ady Gil turning on a dime at slow speed. It was even posted by a SSCS supporter.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-udp9mB14A

      • davidisanass

        This david guy must really love his Whale sandwich to defend what is obviously an illegal activity. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen someone of his vast knowledge of everything. Talk to the guy in North Carolina who just shot an elk in a sanctuary and see if he can define what it means. You can find him in Jail and he’s not going anywhere for a while.
        They say they are doing research but tell me Mr knowitall since I can’t find it anywhere “what are they trying to accomplish with the results of this research?” my answer is to supply the market and Davids plate with fresh whale.

      • Boo Radley

        Yes its all so convenient for japan isn’t it…

      • David

        It is obvious that I am really being effective and/or that many anti-whalers are 6 years old.

        Let’s see, Article VIII allows research whaling, the sanctuary specifically doesn’t apply to research whaling and even if it did Japan followed Article V and objected to the sanctuary so it doesn’t apply.

        In many states it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon. Oh, unless there is an exception to the law against concealed carrying of a gun, then what would normally be illegal suddenly isn’t illegal.

      • RJR

        You need to look at the footage from the SM2. You see the wake of the AG increase as the two vessels close in on each other. The only reason for the AG wake to change like that is an an increase in speed…ie the crew of the AG are responsible for the extenet of the damage. Pete had it right I think. The SM@ was trying to nick the AG forcing it to return for repairs, the sudden burst of speed by the AG turned the nick into a sinking.

      • Richard

        One thing you have failed to state is that when two vessels of different size and bulk get TOO close it will have adverse affects on each other. The AG was NOT under power at the time for they were OUT of fuel to do anything else. PLUS all crew members ( 4 in total as well as the camera man) were on the stern when the SM2 came at them. NO ONE was at the helm for Pete was the Captain AND Pilot. The wake you see is the affects of a larger vessel tracking the smaller vessel in as it passes an then collides with it for it is being pulled in by the in swell of the larger vessel as it is moving forward. If you watch the vid you will see that they are right on the AG when they started to film and it clearly shows that there was little to NO wake at all at the stern of the AG an then it became for pronounced at the time of collision. The Japanese were very clever to make sure that they filmed only the moment before the collision to give that affect and validate their claim. PLUS I don’t think Pete would put his 3 million dollar vessel in the path of a much larger vessel. Just plain stupid for anyone to believe that. The footage is clear an to the point. The SM2 turned in to the AG intentionally to cause damage to taker it out of action. I hope that the Captain of the SM2 is taken in to custody after all this an charged with attempted murder as well as causing the loss of the Ady Gil.

      • Witek Malkowski

        They were actually out of petrol so how could they move.It’s shonan maru 2′s fault,the Ady Gil was going really slowly they did know that.The Ady Gil was helping Sea Shepherd.It is a big difference between throwing botels and ramming such a delicet boat.It was 18 tons vs 1000 tons, it was not fere .

      • Richard

        Look at the video closely, when you see the wake appear behind the Ady Gil it is from the wake of the Harpoon ship the water was forced under the Ady and out the back how anyone cannot think of this and says that Ady was intentionally rammed in to the harpoon ship? This stuff happens all the time on small boats It is opposite on very large cruse ships or factory ships where the tonnage is so great that once you are close you can be pulled under, Remember the Titanic and her sister Ships the RMS Olympic pulled the HMS Hawk in to her bow, do you research before you make accusations, plus the ady was out of fuel for intensive proposes and their-by dead in the water. Watch both the video’s from the Sh?nan Maru 2 and if you know what you are looking for you can see all the evidence and as for Pete he said that he was ordered to ram them but the shock and the pain he felt was real and he on his Facebook page still follows the SSCS and their activities he is known to act before he thinks remember that

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=545167537 Cesar

      Hey Hufingraz, (what kind of stupid name is that anyway???) the SN2 made the sharpest of turn that he could possibly make to ram the Ady Gil! you must come from a family of morons and idiots to make comments like that, I don’t expect you to be man enough to say that to any of the Sea Shepherd members. You think you’re funny but you ain’t nothing but a bitch!

    • Rick in Kansas

      Okay… Look at the footage from the Bob Barker. One second you can see the right side of the SM#2, then the whole boat pitches as it turns toward the AG. It’s obvious they did just what they intended to do… Make the crew think they were going to “intimidate” them by going by real close with their little noisemaker and water pistols, but then at the last second, turned and rammed the ship.

      Out of pure revenge. The Japanese are big on that “honor” thing and the Ady kicked their punk @ss so they had to get “even”.

      I hope the Sea Shepherds make a vessel specifically designed to ram those ships with a sharpened nose below the waterline. Time to start treating their lives with as much respect as they do the Sea Shepherds’

      Nuff said. You babies can make up all you want. Wha!! Cry!!! WHA!!!

      Don’t think Paul Watson doesn’t have something up his sleeve for the next campaign. Whalers beware.

      • David

        Don’t forget that the Bob Barker was also moving. All three vessels were moving, so that affects what you see and apparent motion/turns by other vessels could be an illusion caused by the movement of the filming vessel.

        And making a vessel specifically designed to hole another vessel below the water line is all well and good. But it makes it hard to even claim a collision was an accident. In fact it shows premeditation.

        Don’t think the whalers have something up their sleeves for next campaign. And since as soon as he was back in NZ, Peter basically said every he said in court was a lie; the next boarder(s) will see prison time.

      • AnimuX

        Bethune made no such claim. He accepted all of the charges against him except for “assault”. In court he stated clearly that he did not intend to hurt anyone. That the material in the bottled he had thrown merely stinks and does not burn people. And that he never aimed any of the bottles at people.

        He did clearly state, however, that the whalers testimony was “a pack of lies”.

        As for whether or not he would return to the Southern Ocean. Bethune did say that he would not. Whether or not he does remains to be seen. So far he has stated he will participate in other projects and work to end whaling in a different manner.

        As for the Ady Gil, the series of events are quite clear. The Ady Gil crew had ceased engaging the whalers and slowed to a stop. It was clear of the whaling ships. The Shonan Maru 2 changed course to intercept the AG and made a sudden turn giving the AG crew only 9 seconds to react. The whalers deliberately struck the Ady Gil and, in my opinion, intended to kill a boatload of Sea Shepherd activists and call it an accident. Any attempt to blame the AG crew for that collision is like blaming a pedestrian for being run over by a bus on a sidewalk.

      • David

        I said basically because I knew he didn’t explicitly rescind his in court statements. And I am sure you knew exactly what I said, but that wouldn’t have given you anything to respond to.

        The Ady Gil hadn’t stopped and the crew of the Ady Gil made statements to the AMSA that they hadn’t stopped and that the Shonan Maru did not change course. The AMSA even made a point of the no turn statements, probably because they didn’t believe it, but it is what the Ady Gil crew said in their statements.

      • AnimuX

        Once again David tells a tall tale.

        The official report of the AMSA states:

        “The Ady Gil then put its engines into neutral to drift while the Bob Barker sailed on.

        The course of the Ady Gil then moved to around 340 degT at a speed of about 2kts due to the wind, swell and current.”

        AND

        “Due to the limited scope for AMSA to investigate the incident, the lack of access to the crew and the absence of a detailed response from the Shonan Maru No.2, AMSA was unable to collect sufficient evidence to fully examine the circumstances pertaining to compliance with regulations or to conclude the facts of the matter.”

        In other words, Japan withheld evidence.

      • AnimuX

        The official report also states according to the AG crew:

        “The crew of the Ady Gil estimated that had the Shonan Maru No. 2 maintained its initial heading, it could well have cleared the bow of the Ady Gil by about 20 metres. The crew of the Ady Gil claimed that, at the last moment, the Shonan Maru No. 2 turned to starboard…”

      • David

        Once again AnimuX tells a lie.

        “…speed of about 2kts due to the wind, swell and current.”

        So I guess they were stopped but where moving.

        “The crew of the
        Ady Gil estimated that the Shonan Maru No. 2 was initially on a heading of 030degT,
        and doing around 14 knots.
        The crew of the Ady Gil estimated that had the Shonan Maru No. 2 maintained its initial
        heading, it could well have cleared the bow of the Ady Gil by about 20 metres. The
        crew of the Ady Gil claimed that, at the last moment, the Shonan Maru No. 2 turned to
        starboard, changing its heading to 30 degT…

        Investigators note: This is the same heading stated earlier as the ship’s initial heading, 030T i.e. no
        alteration of heading is indicated.”

        So the crew did say and the investigation noted that they indicated the Shonan Maru didn’t alter course.

      • imforthewhales

        Yeah, right david.

      • David

        Yes, imforthewhales it is exactly right and it is an exact quote from the AMSA report based on the statements given by the Ady Gil crew. And unless the AMSA are the worst investigators in the world with the worst procedures in the world, the people who gave statements were allowed to read their statement and make corrections before signing it.

      • Glenn

        Response to David on July 19th.
        I’m not on either side of this debate however, It’s obvious the SM2 turned into the Ady Gil, if you can’t see that you’re blind.
        I don’t think it was trying to hit AG and just screwed up, this is present by the lack of communication after the fact. Oops, uh, what do we do now type of response. Every tried to drive your car close to something and oops, knocj the mirrior off. Bingo, I think the SM2 saw the boat wasn’t moving and at the least minute thought this would be a great chance to knock the idiots off the back of the boat acting like 5 year olds, “Oh, I’m scared”. Bet they were scared when the almost went into the drink!!! I again think the SM2 wanted to hit AG with the water cannons and probably tried to make the guys fly off into the water from the spray (still not a bright idea either because you could still kill someone, put an eye out or whatever).
        The SM2 was willing to uh, uh, help after they stepped back and realized what they had done. They hit it and basically acknowledge it at that point.

        Now for the other side, the Sea Shepards are a big pain in the butt and are stupid with several things they do. Nobody, even a novice boater leaves himself dead in the water due to fuel. If you look at the pictures supplied by the SM2, the AG was not moving or wasn’t moving fast. Look at the back of the boat before the SM2 hits it, there is no jet spray coming off the rear.

        These idiots (SS) are very stupid bacause they throw out a “Prop fowlers” way too early, go back and retrieve it, then try to lauch it with some stupid bungee cord, dah(wasting more fuel). Just wait until you turn, when you are in front of them and remove your hands from the rope. Didn’t think of that???
        Then they follow the Processing Plant for 5 hours before deciding to throw out a Prop Fowler with a metal chain around it (which they had on board the whole time). After they throw it out the Bob Barker steers right behind the other ship that they are trying to kill dead in the water and they try to run over thier own teams weapon!!!
        Is someone really in charge or do they just react when things happen.

        How about lauching a small dingee in 10-15 foot swalls and try to kill the crew when you put them into the water. If you couldn’t control the boat when lauching it, good chance you’re not going to be able to do much when it’s in the water, plus how far was the Processing ship ahead of them, 5-7 miles? What do they have for fuel, two ten gallon tanks??? How much gas will it take to get catch them and when they get there, how effiecient will it runs out of gas. Picture the Processing Plant running of that dingee. Creak, pop, glub glub glub!!!

        Maybe they should go to “Pain in the butt 101″ before heading out to get themselves killed in a boat accident.

        Also, Why didn’t the fleet start at different points and coordinate a grid search to meet in the middle, employ other people to identify and report locations to them, find out ports used for refueling for the Japanese Vessels and follow the when the leave, etc…
        Let’s just start driving in a vast ocena hoping the will run across someone!!! Why buy a boat(s) that will not stay up with the fleet and/or do what you need???

        This admiral is no Admiral.
        He’s an idiot with a band a idiot following him.

      • imforthewhales

        Why did the Japanese ship turn at all? Was Godzilla the way of their ship and they didn’t want to hurt it?

        Lol.

        no, I don’t believe it either…

        If any Japanese ships get sunk this season, we had better not hear any sort of bitchin and moanin…

      • David

        Actually the Ady Gil crew told the Australian investigators that the Shonan Maru kept the same course the whole time. Try reading the AMSA report.

      • http://www.ecorazzi.com Michael d'Estries

        From the AMSA report:

        “The crew of the Ady Gil estimated that had the Shonan Maru No. 2 maintained its initial heading, it could well have cleared the bow of the Ady Gil by about 20 metres. The crew of the Ady Gil claimed that, at the last moment, the Shonan Maru No. 2 turned to starboard, changing its heading to 30 degT6 and colliding with the port sponson and then smashing off a 3 metre section of the bow of the Ady Gil.”

      • Manolo

        The engineer was inside, He could have driven the Ady out of harms way!

      • David

        Nice selective quoting of the source. Lets look at the all of the relevant words.

        “The Shonan Maru No. 2 then approached the Ady Gil from the stern. The crew of the
        Ady Gil estimated that the Shonan Maru No. 2 was initially on a heading of 030degT,
        and doing around 14 knots(5).
        The crew of the Ady Gil estimated that had the Shonan Maru No. 2 maintained its initial
        heading, it could well have cleared the bow of the Ady Gil by about 20 metres. The
        crew of the Ady Gil claimed that, at the last moment, the Shonan Maru No. 2 turned to
        starboard, changing its heading to 30 degT(6) and colliding with the port sponson and
        then smashing off a 3 metre section of the bow of the Ady Gil.”

        And what does that notes 6 says?

        “6 Investigators note: This is the same heading stated earlier as the ship’s initial heading, 030T i.e. no
        alteration of heading is indicated.”

        Let me highlight that. NO ALTERATION OF HEADING IS INDICATED.

      • Boo Radley

        Those whaling scum buckets should have been put on trial for the sinking of the AG and for the attempted murder of her crew. Oh wait on a second ( !!!) …they have already been tried by world opinion no less ( !!!) and they have been found guilty as charged.

      • crumpets are yummy

        I wonder if David works for Glen Inwood?

      • http://www.ecorazzi.com Michael d’Estries

        Thanks, David. I stand corrected.

        I just want to add, however, that the crew still believe that the Maru turned towards them at the last minute. It appears, however, as you point out, that they were confused on the headings.

      • Boo Radley

        So what you are saying then is that the Captain of the whaling ship had the AG in its sights the whole time?

    • Rick in Kansas

      David

      You just made the case. It’s all about DENIABILITY, huh? “That would make it hard to claim it’s an accident.”

      That’s what the whalers are doing! They sunk a ship ON PURPOSE and claim it’s an accident.

      I say the hell with politics… I knew eventually the whalers would go too far and start an ACTUAL WAR in the southern ocean and they’ve done it.

      Paul is much more cool-headed than I, which is probably a good thing.

      I’ll tell you something else… I am not a huge “Save the Whales” guy, although I do think whaling is cruel and barbaric… I just don’t feel so strongly about it that I would go to Antartica to fight them.

      Now, sinking that beautiful, sweet boat REALLY ticked me off to the point of actually wanting to DO SOMETHING. It posed no immediate threat to the SM2 and they just ran it over. They could have easily maintained course and went right by. It was pointless destruction of a 1 of a kind ship. All because the captain was butt-hurt because his boat got buttered. There’s a big difference between throwing rotten butter and running over a boat 1/100th your size. If it had been an inflatable boat, they would have ran it over too. No doubt.

      I know you’re just on here for attention, but really man… That was a sweet boat that should still be around. You have NEVER seen the Sea Shephereds do something like that… Yes, they hit a harpoon vessel last year, but that was not cutting it in half.

      • David

        It is not rotten butter, you don’t know that it was don ON PURPOSE, and you don’t know why I am on here.

        Plus what is so special about a power boat that is beaten around the world by a sailboat?

      • http://www.earthrace.net Beverley Bailey

        David, You’re right. It wasn’t ‘rotten butter’. But it amounts to the same thing – butyric acid: harmless aside from the smell. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid.

        And as to what was so special about a boat that was beaten around the world by a sailing boat is that is that the project to break the round the world speed record was undertaken to draw attention to the need for renewable fuels – Earthrace used only 100% biofuel – and you are only one of millions who read it, so job done I’d say!

        PS: Before you say anything about wind power being more environmentally friendly, sailing boats also use fuel for times when sails can’t be used – and it’s very, very rarely biodiesel.

      • David

        How much non-biodiesel was used to transport the fuel for the Earthrace to ports all around the world. They probably used more diesel fuel to deliver the biodiesel than they would have if the Earthrace just made the trip with local fuel.

        And no it doesn’t amount to the same thing. Is vomit the ‘same thing’ as hydrochloric acid? Are apple seeds the ‘same thing’ as cyanide.

        The SSCS used commercial butyric acid which is classified as hazardous and can cause harm to people that are exposed to it.

      • imforthewhales

        Obviously the acid hasn’t worked…the Japanese crew are planning on heading down to the Antarctic again this year to catchem some more whales for sushi. as far as I know, all the Japanese whaling crew crew are still functioning. Perhaps david you have heard otherwise?

      • David

        No, imforthewhales I haven’t heard different.

        The Japanese are planning on continuing their legal whaling in the Southern Ocean from December through March or so. And I believe that all their crew are functioning. I believe the ones injured by the SSCS with butyric acid last season have recovered

        And this is an interesting statement; “Obviously the acid hasn’t worked…”. I thought the SSCS made a big deal about their non-violence and that they don’t throw the acid at the crew? So how would the acid “working” change the Japan’s plans are leave a crew member non-functional? Unless it was thrown at the crew causing injury and which could cause a crew member to be non-functional and Japan to change their plans as a safty measure.

      • imforthewhales

        Rotten butter bombs have been very successful…it causes the Japanese ships to reek and stink even more than they already do. Sea Shepherd anti whaling activists do not use this on the whalers, just their whaling ships. They cannot help it if some dumbass whaler decides to rub some into his eyes as part of rotten butter research now can they?

        Up to this point I have seen no film or any evidence to show that any whaler has been injured in any way by Sea Shepherd.

        The Japanese have caused plenty of them though, to their own people too. How many people have they killed in the Southern ocean up to now? I think we are up to about three…but that is another story.

        I am sure if there was any evidence at all to support the Japanese whalers claims then it would have been posted very quickly on the ICR website for all the world to see. Alas, for you and the Japaense Whalers, there is none.

        Only the Japanese and their little minions would claim an injury off a bit of rotten butter…do you really think that anyone takes the Japanese seriously with this claim?

        The Japanese whalers remind me of the italian football teaming lying on the ground and writhing in agony after they have been touched by an opponent.

        Why do the Italian footballers do this? Why do the Japanese do this? Even when it brings them great shame and humiliation?

        It is because the Italian soccer team and the japanese whalers are seeking a few free kicks into the goal.

        Some might call it desperation of course.

        But, sadly, it appears that the japanese do not seem to care all that much about what the world thinks of them.

        They will be packing up and leaving on another, illegal commercial whale hunt this year. Lets hope that it is just as unsuccessful as last year.

    • http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/07/12/ady-gil-2-paul-watson-says-it-will-be-replaced-but-not-yet/ Matthew

      I really hope they make an Ady Gil 2

    • SaveTheMorons

      @ David (a general reponse to the sum of your posts):

      The points you make all hinge on legality. You desperately try to point out all of the loopholes in the laws in order to justify the killing of the whales. What you are ignoring is morality.

      Years ago is was acceptable to have Africans as slaves in this country. It was legal. It was written into the great Constitution of the good ole US of A. If you wanted, you could beat them, torture them, kill them if you wanted to. No one would say a word, let along prosecute.

      Some time ago, the people of the USA realized that this barbaric treatment of people was morally wrong. The laws changed. The morality of the issue never changed. Slavery was always wrong, it just took a little time to wrestle power from those who had power (the 3/5ths compromise made it more difficult because the more slaves you had, the more votes you had, essentially).

      The point is this: Destroying the biodiversity of the planet is wrong. Don’t be confused though, I am all for hunting and fishing, when done responsibly. I am a spearfisherman (ironically, because the guns I use appear similar to harpoons for whaling), but I don’t target protected species, I don’t overfish particular species or locations, I specifically aim for fish that are least important to the reproductive health of the species (taking smaller, but legal fish is the best), and I also avoid legal species that I personally feel are under too much pressure or, for some reason, are particularly important to a specific ecosystem (i.e. Sheephead here in San Diego protect the kelp by eating the urchins).

      By limiting my intake of industrial farmed beef, pork, chicken and fish, I limit my culinary impact on the world. The animals i eat lived free, healthy lives, and are not specifically loaded up with hormones that companies use to boost production and profits.

      Long story a little longer: It’s not the legality, it’s the morality, David. Your attitude in these posts is clear- if it’s legal, than no one should complain or act. No great person on this plant has ever had the attitude. Ask yourself, would you commit murder of an innocent person if it were legal? Would you cheat on your wife if it was legal? Does illegal or legal really mean everything to you? Or, are there certain things that you personally, feel morally obligated to uphold?

      Laws are for people who don’t know what is right and what is wrong. If you need the laws to guide your morality, then you have no intrinsic morality and you are merely a pawn for those who make the laws. David, based on you posts, you may want to talk to a doctor about the potential that you have sociopathic disorder. I am not sure what to treatment is, but surely it’s better than being undiagnosed.

      Best of luck with your mental health, David.

      Elliott

  • Kimitake Hiraoka

    Let’s just hope that when they trash the next one, they have the decency not to dump the wreckage and diesel fuel into the pristine waters of the Southern Ocean.

    Environmental vandals.

    • From MN, with hope…

      All wreckage ‘dumped’ (How could it be dumped? It never left the water!) was because the SM2 got a ‘critical hit’ as it is known, and broke the nose off in such a way that it couldn’t be salvaged. There was very little fuel left, and Sea Shepherd removed it, along with the other fluids. Why can’t you pro-whalers (or are you just anti-anti-whalers?) just accept that your ‘almighty’ whalers rammed and sunk the Ady Gil? Then proceeded to make it appear as if fuel was leaking from it. If you’re so worried about such a tiny (non-SSCS caused) spill than you must be half-dead worrying about the Gulf spill! If you care so much about said non-SSCS caused spill harming wildlife, and the AG sinking (because it’s the very first ship in the history of the world) and possibly harming wildlife, than why is it that you don’t mind that whales get cruelly killed by the hundreds by your ‘almighty’ whalers?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=545167537 Cesar

        they can’t accept it because they are a waste of precious air and space in this world

    • Kimitake Hiraoka

      MN, why don’t you believe that the SSCS vandals left the oil to spill into the ocean? Because they said they didn’t and claimed the Japanese had faked the photographs showing the oil they left behind?

      You know that they make no secret about their willingness to lie when it suits them. So why do you insist on believing everything they say? It just doesn’t make sense.

      Please explain.

      • SSCSSS

        Please. What the Japanese do in the Southern Ocean is far more damaging to the environment than some fluid leaking out of a vessel that had been murderously rammed by the SM2.

        Why am I even responding to an ICR flak? What a waste.

      • Mr philips

        Because the Japanese government and whalers are the biggest liars and eco terrorists the world has ever seen. They kill the calves and pregnant females of endangered whales, in a whale sanctuary. Only the lowest form of human would do such a disgusting thing.

        If you do not understand why killing protected mammals in the territory of another country is wrong, then there is something very wrong with you.

      • David

        Minke whales aren’t endangered.

        It is not the territory of another country.

        And to study a species you can’t just take males and non-pregnant females. Plus how do you tell a whale is pregnant.

      • From MN, with hope…

        http://oceanlink.island.net/biodiversity/minke.html

        They are, but they are a ‘low-risk’ species.

        The sanctuary was created by the IWC, and commercial whaling is prohibited. And since Japan is under the guise of ‘research’ than nobody does anything.

        How can you tell a human is pregnant? They get noticeably larger.

      • David

        “How can you tell a human is pregnant? They get noticeably larger.”

        No shit Sherlock. But if you met a women who you have never seen before isn’t it possible that you wouldn’t know if she was pregnant or just overweight? And whales are usually underwater with their bellies, where the majority of the growth would be visible, hidden from view.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Yes because if they were overweight than you would be able to see it in their face, arms, legs, and elsewhere. Whales expand in girth, so they’ll appear wider than the normal whale. And I get sarcasm isn’t most easily expressed through the web.

      • David

        MN really needs to improve their schools.

        Do you mean that overweight women can’t get pregnant? And that it could be difficult to tell especially in the early months?

        At the beginning of the whaling season they would only be 2 or 3 months into a 10 month pregnancy. And you really are contending that a person should be able to tell that with just a view from above?

      • crumpets are yummy

        Well they shouldn’t be bothering checking for pregnant whales in any case, the birth of the calves is what is important and will tell you all you need to know ( if you need to know it).

        If there are lower birth rates, there is nothing that the Japanese are going to do about it. If birth rates are higher then these can easily be counted…and you do not need a harpoon to count whales.

        Perhaps you need to go back to school …logic appears to be your weakest link.

      • Stephan

        First of all let’s get some facts straight…. 1. In open waters each commander has the responsibility to avoid collision therefore they most steer away from any sea traffic in their direct path…(shonin maru #2 failed to do this as they steered towards the ady gil) 2. The japanese are illegaly hunting whales in antartica it is a WHALE SANCTUARY hence no whaling period. 3. Japanese had transformed the shonin maru #2 into an armed attack vessel (LRAD, firearms, water cannon) mained by trained security personel. The intend of this ship and crew was to disable any Sea Shepherd by any means necesary. 4. Launching apples and potatoes from a potato launcher is not terrorism…. generaly terrorism requires some sort of “explosive” or “massively destructive” event (9/11, london subway bombings, IRA etc…). 5. Clearly the sea shepherd tactics are not working and maybe paul should revert to his original ways and simply sink the whaling ships while they are docked… view late 70s early 80s when paul watson sunk the majority of the northern european whaling fleet. 6. Anyone who says “good finally some did something to the people who are fighting for the whales…blah blah blah”, all I have to say is how would you feel if someone came into your backyard and skinned your dog and sold it’s meat to their friends and called it research….. that is effectively what the japanese are doing to the whales so shut your pie holes you ignorant pieces of %&$@.

      • David

        Very good Stephan.

        1. As you say each commander has the responsibility. So teh Ady Gil failed to do this.

        2. Japan is legally whaling in a sanctuary that doesn’t legally apply to them.

        3. Then the SSCS have turned their ships into armed attack vessels also.

        4. Sorry you need to look at the definition of terrorism. Explosives or massive destruction are not required. In fact no damage at all is required. The root of the word terrorism is terror.

        5. Yes because sinking those ships, most of which were salvaged and continue to hunt whales, really shut down whaling in Iceland and Norway.

        “I have to say is how would you feel if someone came into your backyard and skinned your dog and sold it’s meat to their friends and called it research…”

        I would be upset and since those actions would be illegal, I would get the police involved. I wouldn’t attack them myself. But the whales aren’t in anybodies backyard they are in international waters and the whales don’t belong to anybody until they are caught when they become the property of the person who caught them.

      • Imforthewhales

        If someone was to attack my dog…wanting to skin him alive… you can bet your sweet ass i would attack them myself! I would consider it my duty, as his master and protector, to do just that..protect him. The law would also be on my side.

      • David

        Well imforthewhales you have changed the statement that was made. I agree that if they hadn’t accomplished their actions yet I would try and stop them. And yes since they were in my backyard, to a point, the law would be on my side. But Stephan had used past tense indicating those actions had already taken place. If I went outside my property to attack them after the actions had occurred then the law would no longer be on my side if I attacked.

        And of course you ignore the fact that the whales don’t belong to the anybody prior to being caught and they aren’t in anybodies backyard.

      • Imforthewhales

        well then David you and i agree on something. Those whales belong just as much to me as any Japanese whaler.

        they belong equally as much to the whale watching operators that bring in the dollars to local communities in Australia and New Zealand and other places that they may travel to ( Tonga, South America for example).

        We also agree that prevention is better than cure ( which is what Sea Shepherd are so good at)

      • David

        You really need to learn to read what is written, not what you want to be written.

        We do not agree.

        Until they are caught, the whales belong to no one. When caught they belong to the person/group that caught them. SO unless you go whaling you have never had any ownership in a whale.

        “We also agree that prevention is better than cure ( which is what Sea Shepherd are so good at)”

        I don’t know how or where you pulled this from my writing, but I do agree to a part. It would be better to prevent the SSCS from interfering with the whalers than having to cure the situation be convicting them in court. But in my opinion the SSCS are not and don’t even seem to try to prevent, because from the anti-whaling side I would think prevention would be to convince the whalers to never leave port.

      • imforthewhales

        I think David that you really need to think about what i have written first before flying in with a counter argument.

        Let me explain.

        I don’t believe that the whales are owned by Japan.

        My value of ownership re japan =zero

        You don’t believe that i own the whales

        Your value of ownership re moi =zero

        Therefore you and I agree.

        Our values of ownership are both Zero

        Because zero=zero then you and I agree. As i sad, they belong to any Japanese whaler as they do to me.

        Prevention is better than cure in the case of the dog

        Prevention is better than cure in the case of the whales

        Naturally, if the Japanese were not to leave port then that is best case scenario.

        However, as the Japanese are leaving port, SS are forced to prevent whales being killed in the waters surrounding Antarctica.

        This is still prevention.

        Not the “best case” prevention, but prevention non the less.

      • futureseashephard

        you are an ass.
        They were in australian waters and the sm2 clearly turned into the AG at the last second leaving the ady gil hopeless. if your so smart explain that explain why the japanese cant catch whales in their own damn waters. You know that if you were in capt pete bethune’s position u wud have swam after the ady gil to the bottom of the ocean

      • From MN, with hope…

        Don’t change the subject, answer my questions. Each one. You always make the u-turn and avoid those pressing questions! From the point where I am, your employers, the whalers, have beyond zero credibility. I don’t know about the photos, they were probably faked, but for sure, Sea Shepherd cleaned up what miniscule amount of fuel and other chemicals were left.

    • Mr philips

      Actually, the Japanese whalers attempted to murder the crew of the Ady Gill, destroying the boat in the process. I’m presuming you’re from the propaganda third world state of Japan, where everyone believes everything but the truth.

      • crumpets are yummy

        Kimi must have mercury poisoning if he believes his own dribble.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1076105348 Hart

    Any fuel and wreckage left in the ocean was the responsibility of the criminal Japanese poachers.

    • crumpets are yummy

      Yes of course …only a fool would believe otherwise…Kimi and his bum chums will do their best, however, to lay the blame for everything at the feet of SS and supporters.

      That is just the kind of people that they are.

  • Tojo Himura

    You do know that bio-diesel is a non-hazardus material interms of the envionment right? Not to mention the Sea Shepherds contacted Australian Maritime Rescue Authorities which are the responsible authorities to contact in the area. And didn’t the whalers throw metal objects into the ocean? Perhaps the Shonan Maru captain will think twice before ramming a ship and refusing to take responsibility.

    • David

      Do you know that the Ady Gil wasn’t using biodiesel? It gels and clogs the engines at the temperatures in the Antarctic. At best they were using a blend with maybe 30% biodiesel, but more likely they were running straight diesel.

      • Cho cho ma

        What proof do you have that they used somthing other than biodiesel?

      • David

        The FACT that biodiesel gels and won’t work at cold temperatures.

        “Biodiesel will “cloud” at temperatures below 55 degrees F (13 degrees C). While this “clouding” is easily reversible by raising the temperature of the fuel again to above 55 degrees, it may cause temporary clogging of your fuel system, thus stopping your engine. Petroleum diesel fuel (Diesel #2) can be used down to -10 degrees F (-24 degrees C). It is advisable to use a blend of at least 50% petroleum diesel with your biodiesel if you are going to be operating in cold weather. You can experiment with different blends of biodiesel and petroleum diesel to determine what works best.”

      • zeke

        OK, I am left to explain why sailboats need sails once again: The cabin is heated and thus with the tight fit of the AG that heat is in close contact with the fuel s well, I suppose I should mention that the cabin IS NOT heated to the flash-point of the fuel (just thought with the trolls’ brain size they might just say “the fuel couldn’t be heated, they would never take that risk, it could ignite!” Plus, even if the AG was running straight diesel it is not stored in the bow.

      • David

        Sorry zeke.

        I have been in the engine room of many ships in both the Arctic and Antarctic. The room air temperature exceeded 90 degrees but the water in the bilges will still freeze. The Ady Gil’s fuel tanks were built into the hull and exposed to the water temperature through the hull. Unless the cabin was kept at a temperature which people couldn’t withstand, there is no way the cabin heat kept biodiesel warm enough to prevent gelling.

      • Preissner

        Hey Guys, i just had to weigh in on this, I work in the biodiesel industry and know Pete personally from the Earthrace days. While Biodiesel is a great alternative to dino diesel there is no way they would have taken the chance down there running any blend of bio. It would be an unnecessary safety risk. But why debate the point, all it does is detract from the real issues at hand, Namely illegal whaling…

  • Mkay

    Hart, you’re a dumbass – whoever was at the controls of that piece of crap was responsible because he drove it right in to the side of the SM2. it was cool to see Bethune cry like a little girl slapped at K-Mart when he was on the stand. yeah, real hero alright! That’s your hero? Figures – crying little “sheila”, eh? No wonder his wife left him – any man who acts like that obviously can’t satisy a woman, when he acts like one!

    • From MN, with hope…

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/3909183/NZ-is-Japans-lap-dog-Bethune-says

      Check out ‘Obsession Costs Marriage’

      -’We split up before I went to Antarctica.” He said-

      Watch the video of the collision again. Now come back and tell me, are you truly so ant-anti-whalers that you think the AG hit the SM2? It’s obvious to the whole world that the SM2 hit the AG, not the other way around. And last I checked, you don’t ram when you’re coasting in a boat much smaller than the other, and it’s so fragile that it’s nose would be crushed if it were to hit anything. I’d cry if there were the risk I were to be locked up for years. In fact I’d cry much more than he did. He’s only human who was extremely worried that he wouldn’t see his family (they are still living together) for years. Sure he knew it when he decided to board the SM2, but reality hits hard.

    • Mr philips

      Another lillte fool who will believe what he wants. Get a life son, making up lies behind a computer will not disguise the fact that you are a loser. You’ve done nothing with your life and never will, so you feel threatened by those with the ability to act on their beliefs. Pete Bethune is a world record holder. You have any records? Ever done anything whatsoever worth mentioning? Ever will? NO.

    • Cho cho ma

      At least he can feel a sense of emotion, unlike you.

    • JapanSupportsCriminals

      You are just an internet troll attempting to make yourself feel more secure. Though you will never personally go out there and stand on your view. Japan is willing to support whatever action the whalers will do. Anyone avoiding the point that before the ship was hit video shown they were preparing good bye and waiting for refuel. Anyone that things “hey this Japan ship is moving very close, lets ram it risking our lives by an unknown ammount. There are also non-SS people on board running cameras. He would have objected to taking a hit. Anyone on Ady Gil would not be sure they would be alive after a hit. All it takes is to fall off and hit your head into the side of the ship.

      I don’t care that Japan is out there whaling, if it is part of their culture, and they like the meat, then CLAIM IT. Stop bullshitting the world with your fake research that has no published results for the last 10 years. Tell the world. Give SS no legal ground to even disrupt you by gaining international backing. OH what you would rather continue to push around an environmental private organization? Because you know no government will ever care about the environment? Geez you might be the new USA doing shit you feel like without caring what anyone else things.

    • http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/07/12/ady-gil-2-paul-watson-says-it-will-be-replaced-but-not-yet/ robs

      peter bethune is a respectable member of society unlike some of people who post on this site stop bad mouthing a respectable guy and back to the issue

  • Kimitake Hiraoka

    It’s interesting that Bethune now “accepts” the Sea Shepherd line that his expulsion was a “ploy” to trick the judges.

    After all, Sea Shepherd still owes him $700,000 for the trimaran that they trashed. They’ve got him over a barrel.

    Poor Bethune. He got in over his head and was completely fooled by Watson and his thugs.

  • crumpets are yummy

    Poor Bethune alright…smashed & almost murdered by the Japanese whaling thugs, …then ripped off by the Japanese mafia.

    What the japanese have done, of course, is to draw a line in the sand.

    A very clear line.

    Something tells me that the whalers and their political allies treatment of Pete Bethune will not work out well for them in the long run.

  • D

    I am against Whaling but I honestly believe that the millions of dollars spent each year by SSCS on harrassing the Japanese fleet would be much more effective if spent on lobbying, I understand that a moratorium already exists for the Whale santuary but do to poor language in the moratorium itself the Japanese are able to find loopholes that allow them to “Harvest Whales for scientific research” THIS needs attention! lauching a spending war against the Japanese government is frivilous at best.
    Also, maritime laws state that due to the fact that large vessels may require extreme distances to manuever or come to a complete stop when required smaller vessels with give way to larger vessels, (there is no way in hell that the SM2 could have manuevered around the AG) The whole reason prop foulers are effective is because you can drop them 100 yards in front of a large vessel and they do not have to ability to stop or turn to avoid them. It was the responsibilty of the Capt. of the AG to avoid the collision and give way. unfortunate but true.

    • Cho cho ma

      Plenty of organizations already lobby against whaling, Sea Shepherd is too small of an organization to make much of an impact through diplomatic action. As for the Shonan Maru #2 it veered into the Ady gil. The Ady Gil was traveling very slowly and the SM2 approached the vessel from far away. If you watch the video showing the last seconds on the Ady Gil captain Bethune gives the order to cut the engines and you can hear it come to a stop a few seconds later. Remember the forward water cannon on the SM2 was pointed at the Ady Gil blinding the pilots view.

  • D

    while everyone is concentrating on the southern ocean, nothern independent danish countries (Ie. Iceland, Greenland) are expanding their kill quotas for consumption (not research), legally, Why? because they are lobbying…… you can win the fight but lose the war.

    • David

      Actually Greenland’s quota is set by the IWC and isn’t increasing, it actually went down a little bit because the replaced some of the fin whales in their old quota with a smaller number of humpback whales in the new quota.

      • AnimuX

        Indeed the Greenlanders have been exposed by WDCS investigations showing significant amounts of the whale meat are sold at high prices in supermarkets, in posh restaurants and even cruise liners. WDCS concluded commercial forces of demand were driving the hunts as opposed to “subsistence” needs making this an illegal commercial whaling operation as Greenland has not registered an objection to the commercial whaling moratorium.

        Despite this obvious commercial use of whale meat, Greenland has continued to insist it should be allowed to take Humpbacks. With the IWC decision, there will be a net reduction in the “tonnage” of whale meat but that’s the price Greenland was willing to pay for more “palatable” Humpback whales.

        The U.S. delegation commented at the IWC meeting that native subsistence hunters were being used as “bargaining chips” to influence decisions on commercial whaling. Unfortunately, in this case the natives aren’t exactly hunting for “subsistence”.

      • D

        Maybe SSCS could hire you as a lobbyist, that was pretty well spoke.

      • http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/07/12/ady-gil-2-paul-watson-says-it-will-be-replaced-but-not-yet/ robs

        yes they replaced some of the less endangered fin whales with highly endangered humpback’s thats great for whales before we now it with the oil spill and the whalers there wont be any whales left

  • Mkay

    Animux – Keep it on subject – no one gives a shit about your ability to google nonsense and spew it out. That’s why you were kicked off of Facebook – you and your dumbass buddy Donovan. That’s what happens when a piss-ant, racist pig like yourself opens his little trap one to many times! It’s bad when an actual racist like you gets kicked off of his own hate site – man, times are a changin’!

    Anyway, to get us back on subject after Animux so ignorantly interrupted, this is about the possible replacement for the Ady Gil. Personally, I don’t see Ady Gil giving millions more to the SSCS to “stop whaling”, when they haven’t yet. Look it up, Assimux – whaling still continues.

    • Cho cho ma

      Mkay, Sea Shepherds number of donations have been steadily increasing over the last 5 years or so. Though they can not afford to rebuild the boat this year they will have the funds soon ennough.

    • AnimuX

      What’s the matter douchebag? Can’t handle the truth? Pro-whalers continue to try to “silence” anti-whaling voices both online and in life.

      I guess facts about Greenland’s abuse of aboriginal subsistence whaling quotas for commercial whaling purposes is just too much for scumbag pro-whalers to deal with. They’re busy trying to promote whaling and demonize environmental activism after all.

      Make no mistake. Pro-whalers are waging an “information war” on the internet and “character assassination” is all part of their negative campaign. They’re taking cues from the politics of the day.

      Socialist, communist, terrorist, racist, blah blah blah. Come up with some new “original” lies when you get a chance, dick.

      • imforthewhales

        Sounds like a fun job doesn’t it…get paid to spew crap online! Lol.

    • zeke

      Sorry, but cussing at someone angrily and calling them a billion names all the while claiming the other guy (Animux: never cussed, or name-called only stated the harsh fact in the post in question and generally sticks to that in other posts)is the bad guy really desn’t make much sense.

  • crumpets are yummy

    Mckay, you seem to fancy yourself a bit…Animux made a lot of sense …way more than you did with your meaningless little hate fueled rant?

    Sea Sheperd sounds in good shape do do some ass kickin of their own this year, and as usual they will prove to be much more effective in stopping the whaling buddies of Mckay and co than any lobbying will. Sea Sheperd do in fact stop whaling…to the tune of 500 animals a year which are swimming freely, right now as we speak, in the oceans of the world living out their natural lives all due to Sea Sheperd. This is a pretty good result when you consider the might of the Japanese Yakuza and the other vested powerful interests that is whaling.inc.jpn. For a small organization, SS are getting the job done.

    • David

      You do realize that if the Yakuza really had a vested interest in whaling and if the SSCS really caused them a lose of over $100 million dollars last season that Paul Watson would be dead by now and the Steve Irwin and Bob Barker would be on the bottom of the ocean?

      • crumpets are yummy

        So you admit then that the whalers are violent and dangerous?

        How would the Yakuza send the BB and other SS ships to the “bottom of the ocean”as you put it?

      • David

        No you really need to work on that comprehension. I admit the Yakuza are violent and dangerous.

        “How would the Yakuza send the BB and other SS ships to the “bottom of the ocean”as you put it?”

        Are you really that stupid? How did the French send the Rainbow Warrior to the bottom? How did the SSCS send the Icelandic whaling boats to the bottom?

      • crumpets are yummy

        So just to be clear David, you are suggesting that the
        Japanease whalers and their yakuza interests would be prepared to use deadly force if it gets them what they want…they would be prepared to send in their undercover Yakuza taskforce into a foreign country (just like the French did, as you suggested, fake passports anyone?), set up some limpit mines, dive into
        the icy waters of the harbour in the dead of night and sink the SS ships one by one without checking to see if anyone is still inside?

        That sounds like eco terrorism to me. Are the Japanese whalers really that much out of control?

        I suppose that after they sliced the Ady Gil in two, anything is possible.

        I’m sure Paul Watson realizes already how far the Japanese whalers are prepared to go and has taken the necessary precautions.

      • David

        So just to be clear crumpet you are incapable of reading and comprehending simple English?

        What I have said is that IF the Yakuza had a vested interest in whaling and the SSCS was costing them millions of dollars then they would use their violent tactics to solve the problem. And any precautions Paul Watson took would be about as like to succeed as the Libyan relief ship was to actually dock in Gaza.

      • crumpets are yummy

        Just to be clear David, i am able to read and comprehend what you say and i am even able to read between your lines. How about that?

        The Japanese try to make whaling into some scientific research project. The Yakuza still play their part, however.

        The one good thing about that is if the whalers & the yakuza were to carry out a terrorist attack ( ala rainbow warrior) as you suggested, on sea Shepherd then the finger of blame would lay with the government of Japan.

        Japan is already embarrassed enough…they got away with the Ady Gil, but what would happen if they tried the same thing again? or were caught out sending operatives into another country?

        I think it is more likely that when they do try to sink the Sea Shepherd ships, and they will try again, it will occur in the Southern Ocean. Just as they tried it out with the Ady Gil last season and found it quite easy to get away with it.

      • David

        “…i am even able to read between your lines. How about that?”

        Yeah another funny by crumpet.

        The point is that if the Yakuza were associated with whaling they would have done something proactive to stop the SSCS. Since no such action has been taken it is simple to figure out that they must not be associated with whaling.

        See your between the lines reading and comprehension is just as bad as your ability to read and comprehend the lines themselves.

      • crumpets are yummy

        David, you don’t seem to have grasped the point I was making to you.

        The Yakuza wont try anything whilst the Sea Shepherd ships are in port, or within a safe country.

        The reason being is that the finger of blame will head straight for the powers that be in Tokyo head office and there will be all sorts of hullaballoo which governments will not want to entangle themselves in.

        France never really lived down the Rainbow Warrior incident and whilst the Japanese whalers / Yakuza did a good job on the Ady Gil, catching that ship by surprise, their advantage was that they sliced the Ady gil in two whilst out of range, so to speak, in an area where governments fear to tread.

        Therefore when SS get down to the open ocean in Antarctica, they might try pulling another Ady Gil type stunt. Of course, this might be just as dangerous as pulling some stunt in port…they might have got away with one sinking in the Southern ocean (some might be prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt) but a double strike will not be a good look for the Japanese whalers and the government and only seem to confirm that the Ady Gil was intentionally rammed and sunk by the japanese whalers.

      • David

        Then why don’t the Yakuza sink them while they are in Europe. Everyone would blame the tuna fishermen?

        Oh that’s right because the Yakuza involvement is a figment of Paul’s imagination.

      • crumpets are yummy

        David…dont you think Japanese Yakuza operatives dressed up as frogmen in wetsuits and holding a bomb in their hands might not be a little too obvious? Especially in Europe? They would kinda stand out…

      • David

        crumpets don’t you think they could hire non-Asians and attack at night when no one would see them? And they could enter the water miles away, so even an Asian with the cover of a tourist would not stand out.

        So I guess I answered my own question, because obviously you don’t think.

      • crumpets are yummy

        So where are the Yakuza in all of this? Standing by and watching?

  • Mkay

    Why Animux – resporting to garden-variety insults, huh, asshole? I expected better from a genius that has to suffer the indignity of getting banned from Facebook for being a douchebag! LOL!

    The racist comments still have some mileage – I don’t see too much shit from you on the Retardian Alliance forum – even Donovan is resorting to upping threads from 2 years agion because between the two of you stupid jerk-off’s, you can’t come up with any original hate anymore. You don’t have Tricia on her knees worshipping you two butt-nuts anymore. I will give you credit though – the Retardian Alliance is pretty much the only place you can post besides this place.

    See you on facebook – oh, that’s right – you were slapped down and banned!!! Sorry, dude – my bad! Hahahahah…..

    • AnimuX

      LOL. Someone has an overinflated sense of self-importance.

      As you can all see, pro-whalers are quick to point out their efforts to silence anti-whaling activists both online and in life.

      They’re waging an information war of preposterous propaganda, libelous accusation, and character assassination on the internet.

      Yet they’re dumb enough to believe an avatar is a limiting factor. ;-)

    • zeke

      Mkay, I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry at your hypocrisy, all I know is you need 2 things, a broken internet cable so the internet can be rid of your inflammatory junk and a physiologist.(they help with things that go wrong in your mind)

  • AnimuX

    Thanks again ecorazzi for the total lack of authentication allowing anybody to post anything while impersonating anyone. ;-)

  • Mkay

    Animux – Ha – I don’t consider my self all that imoportant, but at least I’m more important than you! You’re nothing anymore, not that you were much to start with – just another racist pig trying to defend a dying breed. That’s how you use the freedoms you have in this country – racist rants? I know you’re ex-military – go and burn that uniform because you are an absolute disgrace to anyone that ever put a uniform on. That picture you sent to your mommy with your uniform? Well, let her keep it, let her live with the lie that her son actually turned out to be decent individual – don’t let her know how badly she failed.

    Hide in shame little racist pig – you and your sick little crew – and make no mistake – it’s getting littler all the time. You’re no different than the crew that goes and protests at soldiers funerals.

    http://a.imageshack.us/img155/4645/foj41.jpg

    Yep – same thing. Good thing I saved this before the admin of your hate site decided you were too over-the-top!

  • AnimuX

    It’s not racist to point out the horrors of the brutal (and actually racist) Japanese military that raped, murdered and tortured innocent civilians and allied prisoners of war on a genocidal scale.

    Unfortunately, that’s what the pro-whalers and their ultra-nationalist side-kicks in Japan want the world to believe.

    They say if you’re anti-whaling you’re automatically anti-Japanese because it’s easier to call someone a racist than it is to openly examine what the government of Japan has done historically whether it be the war crimes and genocidal mania of WWII or the many examples of violation and subversion of international whaling regulations for nationalist mania and amakudari corruption.

    Taking quotes out of context is another favorite tool of those out to demonize anti-whaling activists. The little quote you’ve linked conveniently leaves out a lot of conversation.

    Regardless what’s edited out, in response to your casual personal attack: Anybody who thinks Japan didn’t deserve to get nuked for what its military did in WWII probably thinks Germany had a right to invade Poland too. To anyone who has family that fought in WWII, or whose family still endures the scars of WWII war crimes, that’s not a “race based” comment.

  • crumpets are yummy

    I see the Japanese war on whales as being just the same as their war on Asia and the Pacific in 1942.

    its all based on greed & a sense of racial superiority.

    • David

      That is because you are a bigot and an idiot. And listing 1942 as the date for the war just further shows that.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Well the war wasn’t in 1941, because Pearl Harbor got bombed in December, so action started in ’42. Although I do not agree with the method of bring WWII into the whaling debate, crumpets holds it pretty well that their whaling is based on greed (and possible superiority).

      • David

        Sorry. I don’t know what they teach in MN but the war started long before the US entered it.

      • From MN, with hope…

        Granted, but not everyone knows everything about WWII. I defended his point in where it started in 1942 because I was referring to when the war in the Pacific started: when the US declared war on Japan. Now, again, I don’t know everything about WWII, but there was a bit of action beforehand, but it was several relatively minor things compared to what happened post 12/7/1941.

      • David

        “…but it was several relatively minor things…”

        Not even close.

      • From MN, with hope…

        So one year is more significant than 4 years of battle? Well who knows, I’m no historian.

      • crumpets are yummy

        you can put any date you want to David, you can go back in time to the begginning of the war between china and Japan if you so want to, 1937 in fact, or if you really feel the need, go back to 1931 with the japanese invasion of Manchuria, but the fact is that 1942 was the first full year of war between japan and the SE Asian nations ( generally known as the Pacific war).

        Note I was not calling the start of the war between the United States of America and Japan in December 1941 …the 7th of December that is for all the purists…when Japan thought that bombing Hawaii was a great idea. 1942 ws a part of the war, so my reference was indeed correct. i could have stated 1943 and still have been correct. I could have gone all the way through the years till 1945 when the United Staes woke up to themselves and realized that Japan would stop at nothing to get what they wanted and decided to use a higher degree of force on Japan ( which still didnt stop them)

        You can call me all the names you want to David, but the fact is that the Japanese tried to take what was not theirs last century…by that i mean China, Australia, New Guinea, Manchuria, Malaya, Borneo etc..a sizable chunk of land in anyones language… and they felt they were entitled to it.

        Are you really trying to tell me that you cannot telling me that you cannot see the similarities between then and now?

      • David

        Are you really trying to tell me that you think a world war and whaling are similar?

      • crumpets are yummy

        I shouldn’t have to tell you anything David…the similarities are as clear as mud.

      • David

        At least you are willing to admit the similarities are not apparent to any normal person.

      • crumpets are yummy

        Are you implying that you are a normal person David?

  • Sea Cucumber

    Holy Crap – I step away for a few days and all hell breaks loose! Animux – are you actually complaining about an anonymous poster impersonating another anonymous poster on an anonymous blog?? Dude – that doesn’t even make any sense! Then again – neither do you.

    WWII, Nanking, blah, blah, blah… whaling is just a business folks. I’ll guarantee that none of you was around in 1941, and if you were, you were too young to remember anything worth hating for. For veterans, it was different. That was war, and it was 70 years ago. Anyone that uses that in a whaling argument is just using it as an excuse to vent their hatred of the Japanese, plain and sipmple.

    Everyone here knows that Animux is a racist.

    He administerd a racist site, which he was kicked off of for being too over-the-top.
    He was banned off of facebook for racist comments.
    He issues racist comments which we’ve seen many times.
    He holds a grudge against the Japanese and uses whaling as an excuse to vomit out that hate.
    He couldn’t care less about whaling, because if he did, he would rail against other nations that are doing it RIGHT NOW!

    • Imforthewhales

      The squirt returns! Good old cucmbers…trying to stir the pot of racism yet again. Don’t you get it yet seacumber?

      If anyone is over the top it is you and your little band of merry men…no-one here from the anti whaling side is racisit and i have never seen any evidence of it. I have never seen anyone state that they hate the Japanese. But it suits you to try and make out that other people are racist because it suits your little agenda. How low will you go? Is there an end to the hole that you are in?

      Its quite OK to hate Japanese whalers for what they do.

      facts are that they are greedy and cruel and cause misery wherever they go.

      Fact…they are indeed whalers

      Fact…they are indeed from Japan

      There is no getting away from these facts, cucumber, however much it might grieve you. Nothing you can say is going to change those facts cucumber.

      The other fact of the matter is that Japan did invade other countries in WW2 to improve their own position.

      Nothing you or i can do or say to change those facts.

      The Japanese imperial army showed clear signs back then of being especially cruel and greedy back then, and are now showing the same signs with their whaling program.

      You do not need to be Stephen Hawkings to know and understand this, and trying to deny it will not make this sad chapter of history go away. The similarities are clear. Whaling is an industry based on cruelty and greed, just as the Japanese tactics when attempting to expand their empire were based on greed and cruelty. Facing these facts head on is quite healthy, as is the skill to learn from others mistakes. Why is it healthy? Because be looking back through the past we can see the mistakes that were made ( as the old saying goes, history is apt to repeat itself) …we can then proceed to make some necessary changes that need to happen.

      This is what smart people do.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “The Japanese imperial army showed clear signs back then of being especially cruel and greedy back then, and are now showing the same signs with their whaling program.”

        The IJA no longer exists. Therefore it is impossible for them to have a whaling program now.

      • imforthewhales

        The whaling program is run by the leaders of Japan…ditto the Japanese Imperial Army.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “The whaling program is run by the leaders of Japan…ditto the Japanese Imperial Army.”

        Japans’ current whaling program is ran by the ICR. Under the supervision of the Fisheries Ministry. The Imperial Japanese Army no longer exists. So, it is not possible for it to be “run” by anyone.

      • imforthewhales

        When the pro whalers start playing with tick tacks and minor points of order you know for sure that they are feeling mighty uncomfortable.

        Mick I’m surprised you didn’t point out that Emperor Hirohito is no longer around either?

        It doesn’t change the facts though.

        Both the whalers and the Japanese Imperial Army got (or get, as the case may be) their programs / funding/ support/ from the leader/s of Japan.

        The death, destruction, misery and outrage that both the Japanese warmongering in 1941 ( + pre 1941 and post 1941) and Japanese whaling cause ( or have caused) are rooted in much the same ideologies…greed being just one of them as well as a sense of superiority.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Both the whalers and the Japanese Imperial Army got (or get, as the case may be) their programs / funding/ support/ from the leader/s of Japan.”

        The IJA obviously received “funding” and “support” from the government of Japan 65 years ago.
        The current government of Japan obviously funds and supports the ICR’s current whaling program.
        It is beyond ludicrous to attempt to link these two things together.

        “The death, destruction, misery and outrage that both the Japanese warmongering in 1941 ( + pre 1941 and post 1941) and Japanese whaling cause ( or have caused) are rooted in much the same ideologies…greed being just one of them as well as a sense of superiority.”

        Is it your contention that whaling causes “death, destruction, misery and outrage” equal to warfare???
        Your contentions about Japans’ motives for the war are based on false, misleading and illogical assumptions. Japans’ expansion in the late 19th century and early 20th century was a logical and neccesary measure to protect themselves from the growing threat of European and American colonial powers. Colonial powers that enslaved and controlled the native peoples of The Philipines, India, Burma, Malaysia, The East Indies, Indo-China, Australia and New Zealand. Colonial powers that also controlled, directly or indirectly, much of China as well. Colonial powers that controlled and exploited the natural resources of the region for their benefit. Natural resources that Japan needed to defend themselves.
        As for cruelty. The IJA was no more cruel during WWII than the U.S. was. Japanese soldiers during WWII did nothing worse than U.S. soldiers commonly did during the Vietnam War. The idea that the actions of the IJA during WWII was far worse than the actions of other countries soldiers in wartime is nonsense.

      • Imforthewhales

        Comparing the two is not nonsense because of my contention that history repeats itself and what the Japanese whalers are doing now ( with the support of their government) compared to what they did in the past.

        look at the similarities. For instance one nations greed (Japan) overcoming the rights of all other national boundaries, world opinion, and the performing of many acts of destruction and inflicting a high degree of cruelty.

        I can see how comparing the two would make you feel highly uncomfortable.

        Is it your contention that whaling causes “death, destruction, misery and outrage” equal to warfare???

        What do you mean by “equal to warfare”?

        Is that how you read it?

        I am simply saying that the motives of Japan are the same ( greed) and the effects of that greed( pain, misery, outrage) as warfare.

        Don’t forget whales suffered too in WW2, remember they were on the menu straight after Japan surrendered and the Japanese use this excuse to hunt whales today claiming it is for cultural reasons)

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “because of my contention that history repeats itself and what the Japanese whalers are doing now ( with the support of their government) compared to what they did in the past.”

        “Japanese whalers are doing now……what they did in the past”??? Are you actually claiming that Japanese WHALERS are responsible for WWII?????

        “I am simply saying that the motives of Japan are the same ( greed) and the effects of that greed( pain, misery, outrage) as warfare.”

        So, you are contending that the ICR’s current whaling program results in the same amount of “pain, misery, outrage” as warfare in general and WWII specifically?????

      • Imforthewhales

        Mick, once again you are trying to play with tick tacks.

        “Japanese whalers are doing now……what they did in the past”??? Are you actually claiming that Japanese WHALERS are responsible for WWII?????

        Huh? Go back and read what i wrote again Mick…your comprehension is lacking somewhat. I fail to see how you arrived at that conclusion…so i must arrive at another conclusion, and that is that either your reading skills are not up to par, your comprehension is lacking, or you are merely trying to be a troll and twist a few words or try to work a meaning into something that was never there in the first place in order to create some sort of confusion.

        “They” refers to those under the orders and / or funding of the Japanese Government and its ideologies.

        I think it is safe to say that both the Japanese whalers and the Japanese Imperial army fall into this category.

        What do the Japanese Imperial Army and the Japanese Whalers have in common?

        For starters, both of these organizations are taking what is not theirs, outside national boundaries.

        Both are highly unpopular outside their national boundaries.

        Both the Whalers and the IJA cause pain, sufferring and death.

        Both cause misery…( i probably don’t need to go into details about the IJA as their exploits are well recorded in history)

        Whalers cause death, destruction and misery to the whales, ( if you were a whale you would agree with me there) and they cause outrage amongst those nations and the people of those nations who are opposed to the commercial whaling operations of the Japanese.

        *Is it your contention that whaling causes “death, destruction, misery and outrage” equal to warfare???

        The Japanese caused more death, destruction and misery in WW2 than probably anytime in history. The misery they caused was widespread and covered a much greater area than the Antarctic whale sanctuary.

        What difference would it make to a whale if you were to die from a harpoon or a Kamikaze? You still die a miserable death , you suffer and end up dead.

        The JIA remember never signed the Geneva convention…the Japanese Are regularly held up as one of the more despotic outfits the world has ever seen. You sound like an apologist for the Japanese during WW2, describing their actions as logical and necessary.

        A lot of your post is just dribble…Australia was not enslaved for example.

        Japan wanted to unite most of Asia under the rule of the Japanese Emperor. They were also looking for resources as part of their expansion plans..up to this point they had been dependent on foreign resources. Part of their expansion occurred in China ( this was before the start of WW2) and this is where the “rape of Nanking” occurred ( 300,00 people died). In 1938 Japan decided to take on Russia, which worked out badly for Japan. They then decided to try and take over Dutch and British colonies in Asia…but in order to do that, they needed to get rid of the USA defenses…hence the pre-emtive Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour.

        In response, the United States declared war on Japan on December 8, after President Roosevelt referred to the attack as “a date which will live in infamy.”

        Coinciding with the attack on Pearl Harbor were Japanese moves against the Philippines, British Malaya, the Bismarcks, Java, and Sumatra. In the Philippines, Japanese aircraft attacked US and Philippine positions on December 8, and troops began landing on Luzon two days later.

        As i mentioned before, the Japanese were looking at taking what did not belong to them, were rather sneaky about the whole thing too, and caused death & misery …

        The Japanese whalers are doing the same thing now for the same reasons.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        First, comparing the actions of the Japanese government 70 years ago and the Japanese government now is ridiculous. The world then and the world now is completely different. It is also disingenuous as well as hypocritical to attempt to do so unless you hold other countries past governments to the same standards as you do Japan.
        Second, comparing warfare and whaling is totally ludicrous. There is simply no comparison to the two. It is even more ridiculous and hypocritical to compare one countries whaling program to warfare while not attempting to make the same comparison to other countries whaling programs.
        Now for specifics.

        “The Japanese caused more death, destruction and misery in WW2 than probably anytime in history.”

        Nonsense. The British Empire alone existed far longer than the Japanese empire, controlled far more countries than Japan and was responsible for far more misery than the Japanese Empire. The British INVENTED concentration camps during the Boer War in South Africa. The British Empire is just one of many historical examples.

        “Australia was not enslaved for example.”

        The native people of Australia were indeed conquered and enslaved by the British. In fact, aborigines were not even counted as “people”.

        “…“rape of Nanking” occurred ( 300,00 people died).”

        I see you picked up a history book. As for Nanking. While I believe that atrocities did occur; I also believe that the number of people killed and the scale of atrocities commited was exaggerated for propaganda and political gain. In a historical context, taking walled cities by storm usually results in atrocities. It’s certainly not unusual. If you would like to discuss this in detail, I’m sure we could find an appropriate forum to do so.

        “the Japanese were looking at taking what did not belong to them, were rather sneaky about the whole thing too, and caused death & misery”

        The land that “the Japanese were looking at taking” had been taken by and was under the control of foreign colonial powers for decades. The European and American colonial powers had been causing untold death and misery in these lands long before WWII. In fact, America only exists because they took land that did not belong to them from the native peoples. Causing far more death and misery for a far longer time than the Japanese Empire.

      • imforthewhales

        Mick, you are just an apologist for Japanese atrocities.

        Japanese don’t even teach their own history in schools.

        They would be ashamed to.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Mick, you are just an apologist for Japanese atrocities.

        Japanese don’t even teach their own history in schools.”

        You are quite wrong on both counts.

        I just state the facts. And the fact is Japans’ actions during WWII are in no way worse than other countries actions before, during and after the war. In some ways Japans’ actions were much better than other countries.

        Japanes history is indeed taught in Japanese schools. To say otherwise is completely moronic on your part.

      • imfortehwhales

        You really need to check up on your facts Mick. Japan is greatly ashamed for their war crimes..it is well known that a large part of their history in WW2 has been covered up and diluted, if it is taught at all. I think Mick that you are the moron for not knowing this.

        Modern Japanese Revisionists Attempt to Re-Write History

        The debate over what really happened at Nanking in December 1937 started again in the 1970’s when historians began challenging Japanese censorship of school textbooks regarding the incident. This also sparked a rise in the denial and revisionist movement in Japan. Right wing nationalists consider the “Rape of Nanking” a hoax, and a malicious lie being used in an “information war” against Japan and the world to discredit the Japanese army and its proud history.

        The debate has its many proponents and opponents within Japan. The official stance of the Japanese government remains that Japan was wrong for what its soldiers did at Nanking. But many hard line nationalists believe that being accused of such an atrocity does too great a damage to the image of Japan and its honor. This is why many Japanese believe that the ‘Rape of Nanking” should be denied and omitted from the pages of history.

        “during and after the war. In some ways Japans’ actions were much better than other countries.

        Oh I see Mick…so other countries had comfort women? Canabalised their prisoners of war to eat them when supplies ran out? Conducted surgical experiments on live people?
        I see Mick…that sound much better doesn’t it!

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “that a large part of their history in WW2 has been covered up and diluted, if it is taught at all.”

        Japanese schools do indeed teach history in regards to WWII. And Japanese people are well aware of their history.

        As I said before, Japans’ actions during WWII are no worse than other countries and are not extraordinary. For example, U.S. troops routinely raped, tortured and murdered civilians during the Vietnam War. It was common for U.S. soldiers to take body parts of fallen Japanese soldiers as trophies during WWII. Which was a clear war crime in volation of the Geneva Convention. These are just a couple of examples out of many atrocities carried out by many nations in the past.

      • Imforthewhales

        You need to do more research on this topic David. It is clear that you do not have a clue.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “You need to do more research on this topic David.”

        IFTW, it appears you have lost track of the discussion. You have become confused, disoriented and incoherent. Take a break for a few days and get some rest.

      • Imforthewhales

        I’m perfectly OK thx, but it is clear that you need to educate yourself before you are able to offer anything to the discussion. Let me know when you have read up on the subject.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        Who are you talking to? Me or David? I’m afraid you are still rambling incoherently. Get some rest, read over my posts again and try to form a rational response to the facts I have have posted concerning past atrocities commited by the British Empire and the U.S. While you are at it, you would do well to look into atrocities committed by the French in Algeria and Indo-China. You should also look into atrocities committed by the Soviet Union and China before, during and after WWII. After you have read up on these atrocities you will realize that the actions of the IJA during WWII are not unusual or extraordinary. You might even realize that whaling and WWII have absolutely nothing in common.

      • Boo Radley

        I have read up on the subject…the similarities are scary.

    • AnimuX

      Pro-whalers never get tired of lying.

      Say you’re anti-whaling and they automatically say you’re anti-Japanese.

      It must be much easier to lie and call someone a racist than to openly examine the decades of subversion and violation of whaling regulations by nations like Japan, Iceland, and Norway.

      (All of which I’ve regularly condemned for whaling, btw)

      Industrial whaling really is “just a business”. It’s a bloody and despised business propped up by government subsidies and carried out in defiance of international resolutions. There is nothing “cultural” about the mass production of canned whale meat.

      Scumbag pro-whalers like sea cucumber here are busy trying to silence activists online and in life. They’re working hard to demonize those who speak out against whaling.

      • imforthewhales

        Yes they are busy trying, but jut like Japanese whaling, their efforts are ultimately doomed to fail.

        In the meantime, the banter is quite entertaining, i must say.

      • Mick

        @Animux

        “Say you’re anti-whaling..”

        But you are not “anti-whaling”, Animux. You said yourself that you do not oppose America killing whales under the Aboriginal whaling loophole.

      • Imforthewhales

        What has a giant commercial whaling operation of Japan outside of its own waters have to do with subsistence whaling by native peoples in their own waters?

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “What has a giant commercial whaling operation of Japan outside of its own waters have to do with subsistence whaling by native peoples in their own waters?”

        What does scientific whaling and aboriginal whaling have in common? They are BOTH killing whales.

      • Imforthewhales

        That is true but that is where the similarities end Mick.

        Just look at the numbers of whales killed for a start.

        Most people on here would prefer no whales to be killed, myself included.

        However trying to compare the subsistence, small scale local whaling within indigenous communities, where any processing occurs within those communities for the local people, where produce is shared, with large scale commercial whaling outside of national boundaries by large corporations with factory ships for profit has too many differences for it to be a relevant comparison.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Just look at the numbers of whales killed for a start.”

        Yes, let’s look at the numbers. The U.S. can kill a maximum of 70 Bowhead whales a year out of a total population of less than 15,000. Japan kills less than 1,000 Antarctic Minke whales a year out of a total population of at least 500,000. The U.S. kills a higher percentage of Bowhead whales than Japan kills of Minke whales.

        “That is true but that is where the similarities end..”

        That is the ONLY similarity that matters in this debate. Both countries hunt and kill whales. People who claim to be “anti-whaling” shouldn’t care how, why or how many whales are killed. They should vehemently oppose ALL whaling without exception. Yet, SS, Greenpeace and their supporters make excuses to justify aboriginal whaling. If you oppose Japans’ whaling because it is “cruel” or because whales are “smart” then Americas’ whaling should also be opposed for the same reasons. If you oppose one and make exceptions for the other than your reasons for opposing whaling are invalid and hypocritical.

      • imforthewhales

        Mick…I am far more interested in the scale of things rather than working on percentages. To me, killing a thousand or two thousand whales will always be far worse than killing 70.

        One thing i have noted, Mick, is how the pro whalers are always trying to tell others what they should feel, or what they should be worried about.

        I think I speak for all the anti whalers on here when we would like to see the end of all whaling.

        You are right that whaling is cruel across the board.

        I would prefer that all whaling ceased altogether.

        I cannot talk for Greenpeace or other organisations.

        However we have to recognize certain differences first before jumping in.

        I do not know much about the bowhead whaling in the USA but it sounds as if this belongs to the Inuit/ Eskimo people of Alaska and they have an exception under subsistence/ community hunting.

        There is little point in direct action here ..sending in the ships etc …the best approach to oppose I would imagine this type of whaling is to put pressure on government bodies etc or try to create different sources of nourishment to these people.

        I’m sure there would be far more opposition of the Eskimos were catching the whales in other countries or areas that belonged tot eh people of the world or violating agreements or creating a commercial enterprise out of whaling or increasing their kill numbers to many hundreds/ thousands of whales, started using big factory ships for commercial gain, started vote buying and those kinds of things which make Japanese whaling a sham.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “I am far more interested in the scale of things rather than working on percentages. To me, killing a thousand or two thousand whales will always be far worse than killing 70.”

        Then you truly do not care about whales.

      • imforthewhales

        I care about all whales Mick.

        But I am smart enough to see a major difference between lying to the world and hiding behind bogus claims of research to construct a large commercial industry, and merely doing your best (with well drawn out agreements) to feed ones family on a subsistence level.

        There is no loophole in
        the USA. You were the one that claimed the USA has a loophole to allow whaling. The USA are not whaling commercially…The USA natives are not traveling half way around the world with their mafia mates and Yakuza weapons of mass destruction.

        let me know when the Japanese mafia row down to Antarctica with their hand made wooden boats.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “I care about all whales Mick.”

        Perhaps you do. However, judging by your own words, your care and concern appears to extend only to the whales killed by Japan. While you excuse and ignore the whales killed by America.

        “There is no loophole in
        the USA.”

        There are 3 exemptions or “loopholes” to the whaling moratorium:
        Scientific whaling
        Aboriginal whaling
        Whaling under objection

        The natives in Alaska use modern boats and equipment for their whale hunts, including explosive grenades. They also are allowed to sell native handicrafts made from whales they kill. You can read more about it here:

        http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/protectedresources/whales/bowhead/bowheadbrochure07.pdf

      • imforthewhales

        I’ll say it again…that is not a loophole.

        A loophole is when you try to take advantage of something to make a progression for your own side whilst ignoring the general intent of a directive.

        One of the definitions of a loophole is a weakness or exception that allows a system, such as a law or security, to be circumvented or otherwise avoided.

        The japanese whalers are using a loophole, the USA natives are not. They are clearly abiding by agreements made and working within the framework of those agreements.

        The japanese however, are commercially whaling under the pretext of scientific whaling under outdated laws that did not see what sort of an advantage a country such as japan would take with it.

        THAT is a loophole.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “..the USA natives are not. They are clearly abiding by agreements made and working within the framework of those agreements.”

        The ICR is also abiding by agreements made and working within the framework of those agreements. The ICRW allows any member nation of the IWC to conduct scientific whaling. The “general intent” of article VIII is scientific research and that is exactly what the ICR is doing.
        Whether aboriginal whaling is a loophole or not doesn’t change the fact that the U.S. is killing whales. That they use modern methods to do so. And that they sell native handicrafts made from whales they kill in order to make money.

      • imforthewhales

        …uct scientific whaling. The “general intent” of article VIII is scientific research and that is exactly what the ICR is doing.

        Crappola.

        *( Please David, spare us the rhetoric & don’t bother trying to use this line of defense as it is getting quite old now and no-one is stupid enough to believe it) One more time for the dummies…

        What the ICR is doing is lying to the world and conduction commercial whaling under the guise of research.

        Please refer to the definition of “loophole”.

      • David

        Another fail for imforthefails.

        He can’t even remember who’s comment he is responding to.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “What the ICR is doing is lying to the world and conduction commercial whaling under the guise of research.”

        IFTW, no matter how much you attempt to avoid it, the fact remains that the U.S. is killing whales. They use modern methods to do so. And they sell native handicrafts made from the whales they kill in order to make money.
        As long as you ignore, excuse and defend this whale killing your self-professed concern for whales is disingenuous and hypocritical.

      • Imforthewhales

        Mick, it might take some wind from your sails but i am not an American.

        One thing that the pro whalers will always do is to call anti whalers dissengenius, fake, hypocrits etc. Especially when they are doing particularly well tackling their disingenius heads on forums such as this. Its just a part of their tactics. If they are not pointing to other countries whaling then they are pointing to cows and chickens, etc etc.

        They seem to forget that there is a moratorium on commercial whaling, which Japan is blatantly disregarding.

        They also forget that much of their pro whaling argument is because they are for people over animals, yet they sit idly by while people sleep on the streets or die from hunger.

        What do they do about these people?

        The answer is…nothing…they are merely trying to prop up the status quo so that they can continue to try and make money off an immoral and illegal business.

        Oh what was that Mick? Your family runs a homeless shelter? Dave, you have been donating half of your wage to poor people in Africa for the past two decades? Seacumber, you are really a doctor in Medicines sans frontiers?

        Amazing stuff.

        I am not defending Alaskan whaling, as i have clearly stated, i would prefer it to stop. If they were to stop I would not be asking them to start whaling again. I am merely highlighting the differences between what they do and what the Japanese are doing. Do you really want me to go through it one more time?

        For starters it is better to save 500 whales than 70.

        Another point is that Japan is lying to the world, but i don’t see the same thing coming from Alaska.

        Alaskan natives are not traveling to Antarctica to hunt whales commercially inside a whale sanctuary.

        Alaskan natives are not vote buying.

        Alaskan natives are not looking to resume commercial hunting.

        Alaskan natives do not sponsor pacific countries in order to gain votes in the IWC.

        Alaskan natives have not been responsible for the record drop in Tuna numbers.

        Alaskan natives do not hide behind the guise of “research”to continue illegal activities.

        Alaskan natives know what is going on with whaling, fishing etc unlike the japanese people who are , in the main, highly ignorant about such issues.
        Any education about such issues, eg. the cove) is protested against by radical right wingers.

        Alaskan natives are not ramming the ships of whale activists and sending them to the bottom of the ocean, they are not capturing the crew members of activist ships and throwing them in jail.

        Aslaskan emperors do not think that they have a divine right to rule the world…they are subsistence peoples who are living off the land.

        They do not serve Alaskan whale in high priced restaurants in the USA.

        Are you starting to get it now?

        David, Mick, Seacucumber…you all sound the same, you all look the same. Somehow you all seem to blend in together, a bit like a whale milkshake.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “i am not an American.”

        “I am not defending Alaskan whaling, as i have clearly stated, i would prefer it to stop.”

        “I am merely highlighting the differences between what they do and what the Japanese are doing.”

        Good for you.

        You would “PREFER” the U.S. to stop killing whales. That is a rather weak position for someone who proclaims to be “forthewhales”. Would you PREFER for Norway, Iceland, Greenland, Russia and Japan to stop killing whales, too?

        As I’ve said before. The differences between Americas’ and Japans’ whale hunt is not relevant to the issue of claiming to be “anti-whaling”. Either you oppose whaling or you don’t.

      • http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/07/12/ady-gil-2-paul-watson-says-it-will-be-replaced-but-not-yet/ robs

        really come on get back to the issue stop going on about stuff other users are doing or have done get over it and get back to the Ady Gil.

  • fc219

    While I am not pro or anti-whaling, I am confused about this war waged on this subject. If one fishes/hunts food and follows the rules & regulations set forth by the law makers (for WHATEVER species they are fishing/hunting), what is the BIG DEAL. All this time, money and energy could be put to better use if focused on IMPORTANT issues that effect all mankind: poverty, hunger, illness. Just sayin……..

    • AnimuX

      Environmental issues affect mankind.

      The big deal is the world’s whaling industries drove nearly every large species of whale to the brink of extinction. Most of which are still endangered today.

      Whales, like every other wild animal, are an important part of natural ecosystems. They help to fertilize the oceans, keep some species in check and become prey for other species in a specific niche within the food web. For example, take too many arctic baleen whales in too short a span of time and orcas that feed on those whales change their dietary habits to eat more pinnipeds (seals & sea lions). The pinnipeds kepts sea urchin populations in check but as seal populations dramatically drop the sea urchin populations dramatically expand. The sea urchins devour greater amounts of sea grasses and habitat for other fish is lost. All of these species are interdependent.

      Foreign fishing fleets over-fish African waters. Japanese representatives tell the local governments that whales are eating all of their fish (which is not true) and offer development aid in exchange for pro-whaling IWC votes. Local, traditional fishermen suffer from depleted fisheries.

      Pollution builds up in the body tissues of whales (especially toothed whales). The pollution is absorbed through direct exposure or through bio-accumulation where the food that whales eat contains smaller amounts of mecury, chromium, PCBs and other chemicals/metals. Whales have long lives and consume contaminated prey in large quantities. In some cases doctors have emphatically declared whales unsafe for human consumption such as the pilot whales killed and consumed in the Faroes.

      There are also internationally established regulations prohibiting commercial whaling that go ignored by whaling nations. In fact, many regulations have been ignored historically including size limits, species protections, sanctuary boundaries, all manner of quotas and Japan even facilitated pirate whaling in the 1970s and 80s all over the world (that’s front companies with foreign labor killing whales in secret and smuggling the unreported meat to Japan).

      I think you haven’t fully researched this issue.
      Just sayin……..

  • PR

    Why did the Japanese vessel make a U-turn? Did they NOTICE they were out of fuel? Why do the Japs go under the disguise of RESEARCH? Answer: Because they KNOW what they are doing is ILLEGAL.

    • David

      Well PR why don’t you explain how what the Japanese are doing is illegal.

      And collecting data and then reporting/publishing that data is kind of research by definition. So maybe that is why the call it research? The fact that you don’t like their research methods or topic does not somehow stop it from being research.

      • wahwahwhat

        David,

        Can you post the data from their research? You seem to know EVERYTHING!!!

      • Mick

        @wahwahwhat

        “Can you post the data from their research?”

        I can. This is the cruise report for 2009/2010.

        http://www.icrwhale.org/pdf/SC62O3.pdf

      • imforthewhales

        Well thats a great heap of dung isn’t it? If you believe the Japanese, whales are invading our cities and will soon outnumber humans.

        Japanese research is a sham, nothing more, nothing less, as an excuse to go whaling in a commercial sense.

        Japanese have a rather shaky research history, almost all has been derided by numerous scientists in regards to whales. Their research on humans during WW2 etc ended up having some positive use, ( mainly because that kind of research would have been banned in normal times, even in japan) but at a high cost to the unfortunate human victims of the research.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Japanese research is a sham”

        Did you actually read the cruise report? Clearly, a large amount of research is being conducted and useful data is being obtained from that research.

      • imforthewhales

        The fact that the japanese are “researching’ what happens when you cross a cow and a whale simply means they have gone back into to weirdo world of Dr Mengeles.

        I say “gone back to” because the japanese had their own scientific studies, in the same mold as Dr M,on people last century.

        The fact that whales are dying to support such stupid and idiotic ‘research” just makes people resolve to stop it much stronger.

      • Boo Radley

        The Japanese have a long and sorry history when it comes to “experiments” and “scientific research”.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAp8bSdE5MQ

        Look up “unit 731″ for yourselves, or watch the video above which outlines some of the research on people ( or ‘logs of wood’ as the Japanese liked to call them).

        Whaling ‘research’ is just as sick.

      • David

        Sorry you fail again imforthefails.

        The Japanese aren’t “…“researching’ what happens when you cross a cow and a whale…”, it has been explained on this site before. It seems it is fairly standard to use cow eggs in research on other mammal species because they are much easier to get in quantity than the eggs of the species being studied. Most mammals sperm will react in the same way to any ripe mammal egg. So the research is actually on the viability of whale sperm and if toxins or other environmental changes are changing the whales fertility.

        Now doesn’t that sound like exactly the kind of research that a group, interested in keeping a species abundant and health so they can be hunted for food, would do?

      • imforthewhales

        Now doesn’t that sound like exactly the kind of research that a group, interested in keeping a species abundant and health so they can be hunted for food, would do?

        No it doesn’t…it sounds like a country that is operating illegally under the guise of something else.

        The best way ( for mine) to keep whales healthy and abundant is not to fill their bodies full of explosives. A whale in pain , a dying whale with blood pouring out of it, is an unhealthy whale.

        What it needs in fact is a vet.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        You neglected to answer my question. So I will ask again. Did you actually read the ICR cruise report?

      • imforthewhales

        Yes i have read it…the japanese propagandists were fairly creaming themselves over how many sperm whales were on the menu.

        Unfortunately it seems as though the Japanese figures do not stand up to scrutiny….their nnumbers are what we might call ‘fudged’.

        Have you read the information about how the japanese may be fudging the figures to make it appear that there are more whales than what there really are in a real, non fictional sense?

        Would this surprise anyone if it is indeed the case?

        After all, they told many lies over many years about how many tuna they were taking from the southern ocean. Why would it be any different with whales?

        BTW the best bit out of the whole story was the “violent actions”of Sea Shepherd and how the japanese “research”had to move!

        They are a tad prone to exaggeration, me thinks.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Yes i have read it..”

        Good. Then you can clearly see that the ICR is doing research and that their research is obviously yielding useful data.
        Whether or not you choose to accept these facts is your preogative.

      • Imforthewhales

        What makes you think that anyone with any nous would come to that conclusion?

        Even you David would realize how silly that sounds.

        It is clear that the “science” is not useful, most data , if not all of it , is made up and therefore useless for any purpose,except to continue to help japans inglorious lying, its usefulness highly over-exaggerated, and what is clear is that all this “scientific research” guff it is merely a ploy to try and fool people…it is merely a front to continue on with an illegal commercial whaling program.

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Even you David”

        IFTW, you have me confused with someone else.

        “It is clear that the “science” is not useful, most data , if not all of it , is made up and therefore useless”

        As I’ve said. It is your preogative to believe what you wish. However, your beliefs do not constitute fact.

      • Imforthewhales

        Mick or David..I see you both as one and the same.

        The other one, seacucumber, makes up the holy trinity of whaling aficionados.

        Anyway, that goes for you too.

        Its not a case of beliefs.

        That implies having faith.

        Now why don’t you ask me about how much faith i place in the japanese scientific “facts”?

        Ask me again how much faith I have in the truth of those “facts”?

        Can you guess the answers?

        Ill give you a tiny hint.

        o

      • Mick

        @imforthewhales

        “Mick or David..I see you both as one and the same.”

        “Now why don’t you ask me about how much faith i place in the japanese scientific “facts”?”

        “0″

        I see. So, when you purposefully reply to my posts, using his name, you are just being childish and rude.

        That’s no surprise. I’ve known for a long time that you have a hatred for and are deeply prejudiced against the nation and people of Japan.

    • David

      Well wahwahwhat if you think knowing that the ICR produces research is EVERYTHING then you have very limited experiences.

      I could post the publically available data but since in the last 24 years they have produced over 250 published research papers and that doesn’t include 3 full reports to the IWC every year (one from JARPA I/II, one from JARPAN I/II and one from SOWER), I think posting all of it would be a bit much.

      Why don’t you just go to the ICR website and follow the links to the data they have produced and the papers they have had published, that will be a good start.

      Then you may want to leave your parents basement and actually experience the diversity of the world and you will realize what EVERYTHING encompasses.

      • AnimuX

        You forgot to mention the objections from IWC committee scientists about the necessity of Japan’s research and methods.

        ICR official research on whales is about as shady as tobacco company official research on the safety of cigarettes or BP’s study of deepwater drilling safety.

        You can almost smell the diversity of the BS they’re collectively shoveling.

        Dr. Sidney Holt was on the IWC scientific committee for years. I recommend anyone interested in the history of whaling give his personal blogs a good reading: http://www.mywhaleweb.com/?author=17

      • David

        I didn’t forget anything animux. The question had nothing to do with IWC objections to the Japanese plans. Article VIII specific says that the blessing or agreement of the IWC is not needed.

      • AnimuX

        The validity of Japan’s whale science has been questioned again and again by scientists both on the IWC scientific committee and outside of the IWC. That’s a fact. Article VIII is merely Japan’s loophole to justify self-imposed whaling quotas. It’s not the first time Japan has flouted whaling regulations (talking about decades of violations before the moratorium). In fact, the first time Japan used article VIII was to side-step a zero catch quota on Bryde’s whales. In 1976 the IWC prohibited hunting Bryde’s whales and Japan responded by issuing itself a science permit and killing over 200 of them.

        This arrogant attitude that Japan can simply do whatever the hell it likes has finally been challenged in the ICJ. We shall see if the court decides against Japan as several legal panels have already concluded the “research whaling” violated several international agreements.

      • David

        “The validity of Japan’s whale science has been questioned again and again by scientists both on the IWC scientific committee and outside of the IWC.”

        Good for them. You do realize science isn’t democratic, and that scientists who already are anti-whaling make a statement about the validity of the research is no big surprise. Obviously other scientists don’t question the validity.

        You also fail to mention that the IWC consistently thanks the Japanese for the data they supply and tehy say that some of that data is useful in the IWC’s mission.

        “We shall see if the court decides against Japan as several legal panels have already concluded the “research whaling” violated several international agreements.”

        Or if they decide for Japan as several other legal panels have already concluded the research whaling is in accord with all international agreements.

        You are just so predictable. You will believe anything against whaling but refuse to admit that there are arguments for the other side. I know that there are scientific and legal arguments against whaling. I just happen to disagree with them but I realize that new data and/or a court decision could change that. But I bet that if the ICJ ruling goes in Japan’s favor that you will refuse to accept it and blame bribes and the Yakuza.

      • AnimuX

        Some comments on the “validity of Japan’s research” from the IWC:

        “there was some disagreement over the necessity for the use of lethal research methods to address stock identity questions”

        “At the 2007 Annual meeting there was considerable disagreement over the value of this research both within the Scientific Committee and the Commission. As in previous years, there was severe disagreement within the Committee regarding advice that should be provided on a number of issues, including: the relevance of the proposed research to management, appropriate sample sizes and applicability of alternate (non-lethal) research methods.”

        “There was considerable disagreement within the Committee over most aspects of this research programme, including objectives, methodology, likelihood of success and effect on stocks.”

      • AnimuX

        Pro-whalers like to assert that anyone who is anti-whaling has no valid reason for their position. So much so they’re willing to make blanket statements about scientists. As if any scientist objecting to Japan’s research and methods is doing so for political or cultural reasons as opposed to scientific evaluation.

      • David

        AnimuX likes change what people say to what he thinks they said, this is know as a straw man. He also likes to claim that all pro-whalers are paid by the Japanese, this is know as an ad hominem.

        “…was some disagreement over the necessity for the use of lethal research…” Hmmm disagreement, so not everyone agreed.

        “…considerable disagreement over the value of this research…”

        “…there was severe disagreement within the Committee …”

        “…There was considerable disagreement within the Committee …”

        So there was disagreement. Well science isn’t democratic. Just because there is disagreement doesn’t mean the side with more people is right. There was disagreement about plate tectonics for a long time but as more data accumulated the disagreement waned. There was disagreement about the asteroid theory of dinosaur extinction but as more data accumulated the disagreement waned. That is how science works.

        “Pro-whalers like to assert that anyone who is anti-whaling has no valid reason for their position. So much so they’re willing to make blanket statements about scientists. As if any scientist objecting to Japan’s research and methods is doing so for political or cultural reasons as opposed to scientific evaluation.”

        Yes, some people on both sides are like this. Happily I am not one. I believe that the source of data is one of many factors that need to be considered when deciding on it’s validity.

        Witness the recent climate science issue where a few small details were fudged or lied about by scientists who were funded by pro-climate change sources. Does that invalidate climate change science? No of course not, climate change is a fact, but it shows that for some scientists their beliefs and funding source can affect their results, it can cause them to try and make their results look better. That is what peer review is supposed to catch but when you pick your friends and colleagues as reviews it kind of breaks down.

        It is also not a real good idea to make blanket statements because there are exceptions to almost everything. That is why I try and use ‘most’ or ‘many’ rather than ‘all’.

      • AnimuX

        Pro-whalers like to throw around terms like ‘straw man’ and ‘ad hominem’ when they can’t budge someone in an argument.

        ‘straw man’ is misrepresenting an opponent’s argument with a weaker argument and refuting the weaker point.

        This is something pro-whalers commonly do when they claim anti-whalers object to whaling based on food culture.

        ‘ad hominem’ is to link the validity of the argument to a characteristic (real or false) of the person arguing. This is exactly what pro-whalers do when they call anti-whalers emotional or racist.

        Regardless, it is clear that scientists have questioned the validity of Japan’s whaling research and despite David’s references to “democratic” processes, Japan ignores and subverts democratic decisions like the IWC resolutions calling on Japan to stop whaling and IWC regulations prohibiting whaling.

      • David

        Well the democratically agreed to regulations of the IWC allow members to object to any resolution. So I guess the Japanese are upholding the democratic principles by living up to their obligations.

        For over a decade after the moratorium, while Japan used Article VIII, the anti-whaling nations had a large enough majority to use the democratic process to change the rules and close Article VIII. I have often wondered why after spending all that money to buy votes the anti-whalers didn’t finish their work by close Article VIII.

      • imforthewhales

        Unfortunately for Japan the tide is turning, even in the IWC. The sham that has been Japanese vote buying has been exposed…the Japanese whalers are losing support fast, and their supporters are starting to bail out.
        Japanese whaling is on the nose around the world and its only a matter of time before the world sneezes.

      • Boo Radley

        The Japanese have a long and sorry history when it comes to “experiments” and “scientific research”.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAp8bSdE5MQ

        Look up “unit 731? for yourselves, or watch the video above which outlines some of the research on people ( or ‘logs of wood’ as the Japanese liked to call them).

        Whaling ‘research’ is just as sick.

  • James

    Thanks to the few whaling supporters on this site, I’m making a donation to the Sea Sheppards.
    It’s pretty obvious the Ady Gil was rammed regardless of camera vantage point; the SN2 is seen sharply turning towards the AG while the AG is sitting fixed in the water. No argument can deny it. This video proof may not show intent, but in past episodes the SN2 did make aggressive turns towards the Steve Erwin at close proximity. If this is how the Japanese would like to play the game of whaling then I support all t-bone ramming of their vessels.

    Considering the Japanese in their killing of dolphins and whales and the dishonourable lengths they go to cover their actions, I find it disgraceful how they lie. Hiding behind “research” to classify their whaling is dishonourable. I’ve read a lot of history on Japan and I used to think of the Japanese culture and people as highly civilized. But not anymore. Recently I watched the documentaries Earthlings on YouTube, and The Cove, and they’re just as heartless as any serial killers and murderers. Why hide from the cameras if you’re so proud of your actions?

    In the end it doesn’t matter. Japan can’t win. Whaling has such a huge negative stigma and the world’s lack of support for it, that there’s no way it will continue indefinitely. The whalers have started going on the offensive. It’s only a matter of time they will go too far and there will be a major international incident. And no number of lying Japanese politicians can protect them.

    • David

      “In the end it doesn’t matter. Japan can’t win. Whaling has such a huge negative stigma and the world’s lack of support for it, that there’s no way it will continue indefinitely.”

      You may be right. But first, the actions of the Sea Shepherds mean it will be longer until your prediction comes true. And second as the world population grows and more and more people are hungry you may find that world opinion about what is acceptable to use for food will swing back to the way it was in the early 20th century.

      • imforthewhales

        Oh really, well welcome back to Soylent Green!

        Humans are insane to be hurtling towards an ever more populated world. There is only so much space, only so much you can take before yo tip the balance and the earth will turn on the human race big time.

      • David

        So maybe the SSCS could do more to protect whales and all other animals by working to stop human population growth.

      • imforthewhales

        Japan has already beaten them to it…they live in one of the heaviest populated land masses on earth and they all seem to be very hungry. Can you imagine what a state the world would be in if every country was as overpopulated? Whilst birth rates are declining, Japan now finds itself in a huge mess. Japan, as an island nation, has to realize that populations cannot grow indefinitely, and that an economy dependent upon continuous population growth is unsustainable. At least, this message is now being forced upon them.

        Japan is ravenous for resources of all kinds. They have produced a country that would have to be the flagship for unsustainable living…they have few natural resources of their own left and what they do have cannot be spread around equally and in enough quantity for all to share. The proportion of Japans population aged 65 and over hit a record high of 22.7% last year and the result is that the pension system is overloaded. National savings are also down. To make matters worse, Japanese debt to GDP is the highest of the industrial world.

        Therefore, taking what is not theirs and not have to pay for it would seem to be highly attractive to them. Free whales? Good stuff! Lets go catch some more…stuff what the world thinks!

        The Japanese tentacles spread far beyond its limited shores and are spreading further and further. Into the island nations of the pacific, (especially those whose votes they attempt to buy) and into other areas such as the tropical rainforests of Asia.

        Japan may well be seeking to take much more than just whales from our oceans. They may be after many more resources…some we may not be aware of. We can only hope that we do not meet another crisis such as the massive Tuna overkill by Japan over the past 25-30 years.

  • wow45

    sea sheperds sunk like 4 boats so stop ur bitchin

  • gizwinkus

    The Vessel formerly known as Earthrace was a piece of junk. I hope SSCS builds another vessel exactly like it but I don’t think even Paul F. Watson is that stupid. I like how it becomes more awesome over time and after it’s demise. It had a top speed of around 40 knots when it was Earthrace, it gained ten knots in death. Yeah, it could pierce waves and make good speed in rough weather if the crew didn’t mind getting beat half to death. In the first leg of Bethune’s first attempt at the motorboat circumnavigation record a crew member quit with internal injuries from the rough ride. I find it hilarious that the boat Peter the Hammer calls, on Whale Wars, one of the fastest boats of all time (little does he know) set a circumnavigation record that was easily beaten by a sailboat that traveled thousands of miles more. I also find it funny that SSCS still claims a vessel that they no longer own as part of their fleet (the Sirenian). Watson shouldn’t let his minions post things on his Facebook page if he is going to have to delete them and change the story later. He seems to have a problem controlling the beast he has created. Every additional vessel in his “fleet” will make that problem worse. The good news is with more vessels he can distance himself from the attacks that will land the next Sea Sheep in prison and maybe stay free himself, let some poor sap like Bethune take the rap. He likes to think once he deletes a Facebook post it’s gone for good, this article proves otherwise.

    • http://www.earthrace.net Beverley Bailey

      Gizwinkus, you say, with reference to Earthrace, that it ‘set a circumnavigation record that was easily beaten by a sailboat that traveled thousands of miles more.’

      See my reply above to someone else banging on about sailboats for details of my point of view, but just to set the record straight, Earthrace broke the official Union Internationale Motonautique global circumnavigation record. Even a numbskull (or indeed a gizwinkus), can work out from the name of the organisation, that this means a world record for a powerboat, and with the best will in the world, a sailing boat, even under engine power, is unlikely to be able to break Earthrace’s record.

      • David

        “On March 20th 2010, the French trimaran Groupama 3 became the fastest boat to sail around the world and now holds the record of 48 days, 7 hours 44 minutes and 52 seconds improving on arch rival Bruno Peyron’s performance by more than 2 days.”

        Earthrace’s record is 60 days 23 hours and 49 minutes.

        So I guess even a beverley can do the math that shows a sailboat not using engines made the round the world by over 12 days faster.

      • gizwinkus

        You’re correct Bev, and I understand that Earthrace holds the record for Motorboat circumnavigation. I worded my comment poorly. I meant, I find it hilarious that the motorboat’s record time was beaten by at least one sailboat that traveled a far greater distance. It’s too bad the otherwise worthless vessel wound up as just more garbage in the ocean instead of being in some museum where it belonged.

      • imforthewhales

        Ady Gil was an important part of saving 500 whales last season. Those 500 whales are now swimming free in the ocean thanks to the Ady Gil, living out their lives unharmed by a japanese grenade tipped harpoon. Thank to the Ady gil, the poo being flushed down japanese loos right now contains much less whale. She helped expose the sham that is Japanese whaling, showed the Japanese intent to destroy innocent people on the high seas where no-one can see them ( ha ha thats what they think anyway) and exposed what japanese “justice”is all about. Ady Gil was a sacrificial lamb to the whalers, but a beacon of light that shines for the anti-whalers. What the Ady gil did for whaling will love on and will prove to me far more beneficial than having her sit in a museum.

      • David

        “…where no-one can see them ( ha ha thats what they think anyway)…”

        Yeah because the Japanese don’t know that there are camera crews on the SSCS ships, and they don’t know that the SSCS ships have radios and satphones.

      • imforthewhales

        That does not make the Japanese co-operate in any investigations, however.
        The Japanese certainly did their best not to co-operate with investigators in the case of the Ady Gil ramming.

      • David

        Oh, so I show your wrong and you just change your argument.

        Of course hasn’t NZ reported that now that Peter’s trial is over the Japanese have cooperated with the NZ investigation?

      • imforthewhales

        Sea Shepherd charged earlier this week that the “Japanese ships initially refused to acknowledge the May Day distress of the Ady Gil, but ultimately did acknowledge the call. Despite acknowledging the call, they did not offer to assist the Ady Gil or the Bob Barker in any way.”

        SYDNEY — Australian authorities Saturday said they had been unable to determine who was to blame for the sinking of a superboat during clashes between Japanese whalers and militant activists off Antarctica.

        The Australian Maritime Safety Authority said Japan’s refusal to cooperate with its investigation had made it impossible to draw any firm conclusions about who was responsible for the collision which destroyed the New Zealand-flagged trimaran Ady Gil.

        “On the basis of the available evidence, AMSA has been unable to determine whether either vessel took any action intended to cause a collision,” AMSA said in an incident report published Saturday.

        *************************

        Obviously, the incident happened a long way from shore and from where the authorities ( Australian and NZ) are.

        Despite the Sea Shepherd ships having cameras on both Bob Barker, the Steve Irwin and the Ady Gil, and despite the Japanese recording just about everything every time a Sea Sheperd boat turns up. the people responsible for the investigation back on land have had no co-operation to this point from the japanese. I can find nothing to support your argument that japan is now co-operating, but even if that were true, it is the Australian authorities that they need to start co-operating with. Of course, Japan will not co-operate because then they will be found guilty of attempted murder.

        The Japanese were banking on being “out of sight out of mind” when all this occurred (despite the camera work). This has been a successful tactic, it seems.

      • David

        You really are perfecting that failing.

        The Australians admit in their own report that they have no jurisdiction. So they should never have had an investigation to begin with. Why aren’t you complaining that Canada didn’t investigate? They have as much reason to investigate the collision as Australia did.

        And Japan withheld their data until after Peter’s trial so as not to taint the court case. Since the case concluded they have been cooperating with the NZ investigation.

        But no you just cut and paste from 3 month old articles about an investigation where the investigators admit they shouldn’t be involved.

      • imforthewhales

        The reason why Australian are investigating are for a couple of main reasons David. One of them is that the area where Japan cut up the AG is within Australia’s search and rescue zone.

        The other one is that AG and the other SS ships left from Australian ports.

        Australia has certain obligations under international maritime law to investigate any incidents at sea within the Southern ocean.

        Before they left for Antarctica, Australia and New Zealand issued a statement.

        “Our governments jointly call upon all parties to exercise restraint and to ensure that safety at sea is the highest priority,” Australian Foreign Minister Stephen Smith, New Zealand Foreign Minister Murray McCully and Dutch Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen said in the statement.

        They said any unlawful activities, committed by either Japanese whalers or anti-whaling demonstrators, will be dealt with under international and domestic laws ”

        Well so far, they have not been able to fulfill this promise. This is simply because Japan has refused to co-operate with the investigation.

        i would be interested to hear what “data” the Japanese had that could cause a ‘tainting’ of any court case?

        Certainly the Australian authorities need any data that the japanese have to thoroughly investigate the matter.

        One can only assume, given japans reticence and recalcitrance on this matter, that the evidence will look bad for the Japanese and this is why they are withholding their co-operation in the matter.

        Don’t you think David that if the evidence ( or data as you put it) were to show the Ady Gil at fault in the collision that sent the AG to the bottom, that the Japanese whalers would be only too pleased to share this data with Australia? I bet they would be sending it post haste and ringing the Prime Minister to get cracking on the case.

        Therefore one must assume that the Japanese have something to hide. Remember they have been covering up all sorts of atrocities over the years. The Japanese seem to have the strategy down pat.

      • imforthewhales

        From the report on the Ady Gil.

        “We note that at the time of the incident the Japanese Government indicated its view that
        the collision with the Shonan Maru No. 2 happened as a consequence of continuous
        sabotage by the Ady Gil, which included the towing of a rope with the intent to entangle
        the Shonan Maru No. 2’s rudder and propeller, launching projectiles containing acid
        and firing of a laser device.”

        Interesting comments, don’t you think? Sounds like revenge on the part of the japanese whalers to me.

      • David

        “Australia has certain obligations under international maritime law…”

        You are right they do have certain obligations.

        “…to investigate any incidents at sea within the Southern ocean.”

        But this isn’t one of them.

        Since you seem unable to find or read the AMSA report I will quote from it again.

        “As the flag states of the vessels involved, Japan and New Zealand have exclusive
        jurisdiction over their vessels in relation to incidents of this kind. However, AMSA was
        directed to conduct a fact-finding inquiry into the collision as an interim measure given
        the incident reportedly occurred in Australia’s search and rescue region and because
        AMSA has the relevant expertise to investigate such incidents.

        The scope of the present incident analysis is limited as the collision involving the Ady
        Gil and the Shonan Maru No 2 did not occur in Australia’s territorial sea and did not
        involve an Australian flagged vessel. ”

        So Japan and NZ have exclusive jurisdiction. It did not occur in Australian waters. And they were “directed” to investigate. In other words the politicians wanted to make the greens happy so they decided to waste AMSA time and Australian tax dollars for political reasons.

        “Don’t you think David that if the evidence ( or data as you put it) were to show the Ady Gil at fault in the collision that sent the AG to the bottom, that the Japanese whalers would be only too pleased to share this data with Australia? I bet they would be sending it post haste and ringing the Prime Minister to get cracking on the case.”

        No I don’t. Japan has no reason to give any info to an investigation that has no jurisdiction. They also have no reason to prove if the Ady Gil was at fault. It is not like they would get anything by bringing a case against Peter or the Ady Gil’s owner. And the anti-whalers would just refuse to believe any evidence anyway. So IF (and that is a big if) the Japanese have proof of the Ady Gil being responsible what do they gain by releasing it?

      • imforthewhales

        david..why then do the Japanese continually bleat to the Australian authorities about Sea Shepherd? If Australia has no juristiction as you say, why should Australia take any notice of them?

        T^he point of my earlier comment David is that if the Japanese truly believed the AG was at fault, they would have requested an investigation into SS activities.

        The reason they are withholding information tells us all we need to know.

        That is, the Japanese were at fault and caused this collision.

      • David

        I realize you have a problem reading English so I will explain.

        Japan and NZ have the exclusive jurisdiction to investigate and act on those investigations.

        So why would Japan ask a country that isn’t involved and doesn’t have jurisdiction to do their job?

        Oh wait they wouldn’t. They requested Australia to gather data for Japan to conduct their own investigation.

      • imforthewhales

        David, I do believe that because both Ady Gil and the other SS ships departed from Australian ports (last port of call) then Australia has a duty to investigate. No matter where they were located, the ships were inside Australias search and rescue area. As mentioned before, they have obligations to investigate, if only for this reason.

        Also Japan has requested that Australia investigate other matters when it suits them. I don’t seem to recall them sidelining a request simply due to location. In fact every time sea Sheperds return to port in Austrlia, Australian federal police are usually there to welcome them and do some investigating at the request of Japan.

        If the Ady gil was at fault for the collision, then Japan would be doing their utmost to get their hands on the crew and other data/ film evidence/ logs from the ships. You can be assured that they would need the Australian Federal police to intervene/ investigate (call it what you will). Unless of course the Sea Shepherd crew decided to fly to japan on their own…( unlikely).

      • Boo Radley

        David just doesn’t get it

      • David

        You really have a comprehension problem.

        “David, I do believe that because both Ady Gil and the other SS ships departed from Australian ports (last port of call) then Australia has a duty to investigate.”

        No they don’t. Why do you think the AMSA said that Japan and NZ have exclusive jurisdiction?

        “No matter where they were located, the ships were inside Australias search and rescue area. As mentioned before, they have obligations to investigate, if only for this reason.”

        No they don’t. And I will repeat again, why do you think the AMSA said that Japan and NZ have exclusive jurisdiction?

        “Also Japan has requested that Australia investigate other matters when it suits them.”

        Yup, when Australia is the next port that the SSCS pulls into it would make sense to ask Australia to aid in any investigation. But they didn’t ask for aid in this case.

        So you are going to ignore my question. So IF (and that is a big if) the Japanese have proof of the Ady Gil being responsible what do they gain by releasing it?

      • imforthewhales

        They have nothing to gain because they are guilty.

        David, you are talking about the Japanese here. They are a special basket case all to themselves.

        The point is not why Japan would decide to ask Australia to investigate.

        They do this routinely in
        the case of Sea Shepherd.

        The point is not if they ask but when they ask.

        The point is to what advantage it holds for them.

        You can be sure that if the Ady Gil had sunk the Japanese whaler, then Japan would be all over Australia asking for its help in any investigation and to gather up the suspects, hold the responsible ship in port and anything else that would be needed.

        It would not matter to the Japanese whether Australia or New Zealand or Timbucktoo have jurisdiction over
        anything.

        Japan have clearly indicated that laws are there only to suit themselves…those they don’t like, they ignore.

        For instance they ignore the Antarctic treaty regulations about refueling in Antarctica.

        They ignore IWC directives to give up their sham research.

        But you can be sure that if the positions were reversed and Japan had lost its ship that they would be jumping up and down and urging Australia to get involved just as they have done in the past.

        Therefore…given theat they woudl be keen for Australia to get involved if Ady Gil was at fault, their recalcitrance in this investigation leads one to arrive at the conclusion that the Japanese are guilty and they know they are guilty.

        *So IF (and that is a big if) the Japanese have proof of the Ady Gil being responsible what do they gain by releasing it?*

        I have already answered that one. As I have already indicated that as it would be a criminal matter…possible murder investigation…it would be up to Australia to get the house in order and gather the suspects in, ask them questions, possible jail time, extradition to Japan etc. they would also have to prepare to allow for any Japanese to enter Australia…as it stands, Japanese whaling ships are barred from Australian ports. They are also barred from New Zealand ports. Who knows, maybe anyone connected with whaling is barred from Australia and New Zealand.

  • http://yahoo.com Jacen Solo

    I think that the Sea Shepards are making a good choice to replace the Ady Gil, but they should use a design more like traditional hydroplane racers but with a larger size and a small keel to prevent high-speed accidents. Comment me via e-mail if you wish.

  • ClippinWings

    I personally have always been annoyed by “tree hugging hippies” environmentalists and actinides and lumped groups like the SSCS in that same category…

    Until I heard of the Ady Gil and it’s fate and saw the footage for myself.

    I now wish nothing but the best for Cpt Bathune and the other members of the SSCS…

    Keep fighting the good fight gentleman and ladies…

    Never give up, Never surrender!

  • ClippinWings

    Damn typos, that was Activists not “actinides” I’m not even sure what an actinide is LOL

  • crumpets are yummy

    I see what davids angle is now.’It is really quite funny when you think about it.

    He is not here to report the truth or even close to the truth.

    He is here merely to cast doubt on everything…even logic.

    He is here to try and get people to start questioning things by planting seeds in their minds…he is here to pretend that things did not happen, even when they did, and to make sure they are happening even when they are not. Things which are clear cut are no obstacle for david is his righteous mind. I suppose that he and his puppet masters are working towards a 20 per cent cull rate in support for the anti whaling side and Sea Sheperd, Greenpeace et al.

    He does this by questioning everything, evetry fact, every motive, every detail that he can find and by trying to appear more knowledgeable than he is, by adding irrelevant details that try to make him look as though he knows, more or less, what he is talking about and by quoting from his puppet masters about points of order that top most seem clear cut.

    This is one of those cases.

    I am wondering whether this guy is working off prepared information that has been already laid out for him?

    Anyone who has seen a video of the Ady Gil being sliced in two by the Japanese ship knows what happened, but even this wont stop David from trying to distort things.

    David, you are lettng yourself in for some major ridicule here…if you want any credibility that you may have left, intact, then you are going to have to really do some good maneuvering to talk you way out of this one.

    David, have you watched the video of the Japanese ship cutting into the bow of the Ady Gil? Are you seriously trying to tell us that that ship DID NOT change course AT ALL?

    I think the answer will tell us even more about you, lol.

    • David

      I have watch the videos. Since I understand reality I don’t believe you can tell. The video from the Shonan Maru starts to close to the time of collision and gives no frame of reference. The video from the Ady Gil is a hand held camera that is constantly being shifted around and again no good frame of reference. And the video from the Bob Barker is hampered by distance, wave height and the fact that the Bob Barker itself was moving so determining other ship’s movements is impossible without detailed info the Barker’s speed and course.

      Of course paid and trained investigators from Australia who watched the video and had detailed info from the crew of the Ady Gil and Bob Barker couldn’t determine what you in your infinite wisdom have figured out. Maybe you should offer them your expertise?

      • Boo Radley

        The video from the Shonan Maru starts to close to the time of collision

        Oh really, maybe thats why there was a collision ( I hesitate to call it an accident)

        Do yu thunk?

      • David

        So because the collision occurred because of when the video starts?

        What kind of logic is that?

      • Boo Radley

        The Shonun Maru is hardly going to video itself committing a violent act at sea now is it? That possible evidence could be used against it ….do ya thunk?

        Total sham.

      • David

        Except the Shonan Maru did video the collision. So unless you are a liar, you are saying the Shonan Maru didn’t commit a violent act.

      • Boo Radley

        I have watch the videos. Since I understand reality I don’t believe you can tell. The video from the Shonan Maru starts to close to the time of collision and gives no frame of reference.

        Did you or did you not say this David?

        Perhaps you don’t remember.

        Yet you were the one that said “I understand reality”…lol.

        According to you, the Japanese video was a piece of poo.

        I think you were probably right.

      • David

        What is your point Boo?

        Yes I wrote that. Did you write “The Shonun Maru is hardly going to video itself committing a violent act at sea now is it?”

        So since the Shonan Maru did video themselves colliding with the Ady Gil, by your words it must not have been a violent act or they wouldn’t have video taped it.

      • Boo Radley

        By your words the video was a piece of poo..( no references etc). I’m saying if it was a piece of poo, as you claim, then it was a piece of poo on purpose.

  • imforthewhales

    Looks to me like the japanese boat turned sharply at the last moment , that is, off the video David…what are you trying to say here?

  • David

    I wonder if crumpets works for Paul Watson?

    • http://www.ecorazzi.com/2010/07/12/ady-gil-2-paul-watson-says-it-will-be-replaced-but-not-yet/ robs

      what is with all the slander people don’t want to hear this stuff stick to the facts or don’t post

  • Cadde

    First thing first… I don’t give a shit about whales. The “research” ships can use dynamite for all i care!

    The thing here is that it’s evident the AG isn’t moving, i.e dead in the water.
    The SM2 is coming right at it with LRAD and water cannons blazing and eventually ends up hitting and crushing the smaller defenseless AG.

    The only thing that matters here is the SM2 pushed it too far, be it on purpose or not, so they are to blame for the whole thing really.

    Imagine a situation where you are in a huge 18 wheeler running at 70 mph in the middle of Manhattan. Are you going to blame whoever you happen to hit for cutting you off when clearly you don’t have to go that fast and reckless in a crowded area where everything is both softer and smaller than yourself?

    The SM2 had no reason to go that close to the AG at speed and the whole intent was to damage the vessel (AG) so that it couldn’t continue it’s disruptive activities.

    However, i also understand the standing point of the whaling fleet as the AG was used… Not once, not twice but THREE times attempting to disable the props of the NM factory ship…
    Why is this important?

    If the propulsion is disabled on any vessel in seas where propulsion can mean the difference of surviving a storm/iceberg encounter and the ship sinking then what does that make the AG’s actions?
    Pure life threatening actions i might say.

    The Sea Shepherd, Bob Barker and Ady Gil all have (had) it coming and i foresee more events like these coming in the future.
    If the Anti whalers are to stand any chance they need way better boats and better offensive measures or they need to get the fuck outta there before they lose everything they have in court or at sea.

    TRUE STORY.

  • imforthewhales

    Could David be Ginza Glen Inwood himself?

    The plot thickens!

    • David

      Could imforthefails be Paul Watson hinself?

      Paul thickens.

      • Fred

        David why are you so anti sea shepard and seemingly so pro whalers?

        I’m just curious after having read many (but not all) of your comments.

  • Akex

    David:
    Both the SS and the whalers are committing crimes on the high seas. To argue otherwise is laughable.
    Persoanlly… they both should be imprisoned.

    • David

      Alex,

      The only possible crime by the whalers that I am aware of is the collision with the Ady Gil which would implicate a portion of the crew of one ship. But every SS ship, RHIB and helicopter in the Antarctic Ocean has been seen committing crimes and every crew member has been implicated in those crimes.

      So your comparison isn’t very good.

  • Fake

    this photo is fake. i don’t know if the story is but the photo is defiantly photoshopped. look at these links to compare.

    here is the photo of the so called “Ady Gil 2″: http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/adygil21.jpg

    and here is an image of the original Ady Gil: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2010/01/earthrace-ady-gil-21.jpg

    • http://www.ecorazzi.com Michael d'Estries

      Yes, the photo is a fake. Of course there’s no Ady Gil 2 yet…

  • Jim

    Correct me if Im wrong, but didnt the AG stop because they were waiting to be refueled? I recall them saying on that episode the statement “…dead in the water”. And the SM2 still shot the crew of the AG with the water cannons.

    Oh but thats ok right? Do you honestly think Bethune would purposely put his crews’ lives much less his own in jeopardy of a collision like that? What ever Jap shot the water cannon at the AG crew should be tried for aggravated assualt.

    Now hit me with your “Whalers = Good, Anti Whalers = BAD” comments.

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  • Brian

    Ummm if the Ady Gil posed such a threat then why before it was hit that the LRAD had to be turned on and water cannons fired by the whaling vessel? I truly wonder what also gives the whaling vessel reason to aim the LRAD at a chopper in the air as well? Unless the whaling vessel has something they are hiding. Not to mention the fact of the whaling vessels show that they do kill whales in a sanctuary. How do we know the news showed and seen it the world has seen it.But I guess as always the Japaneses like to make up there own rules cause it is convenient for them. Hey Japan I got an idea or a better challenge now that you have taken whales from there let us see how you put them back and intact.

  • Todd

    Does anyone know where you can buy any of that whale meat? I’d sure like to try some.