bethune
by Michael dEstries
Categories: Animals, Causes
Tags: .

A massive war of the words has just erupted online between Pete Bethune and members of the Sea Shepherd.

The former captain of the Ady Gil, who was arrested (and later set free on a suspended sentence) after boarding a Japanese whaling vessel, has lashed out at the group — calling them “dishonest” and “morally bankrupt”.

“I am asking that from now on, SSCS determine to act in an honest way with its volunteers, supporters and media,” he writes on his Facebook page. “SSCS does not need to lie. Saving whales, dolphins, tuna and sharks are noble causes, and the public will embrace these as worthwhile. The story does not need to be manipulated and changed in order to get public support.”

Pete then goes on to list several “Concerns” — blowing the doors wide open on many issues we’ve discussed here on the site over the past year. Let’s jump right into each one.

Concern #1: The Deliberate Scuttling of the Ady Gil

Pete says:  ”After the ramming of the Ady Gil, Chuck said to me that Paul, the Admiral of the Sea Shepherd fleet, wanted me to scuttle the Ady Gil. He said there was no point in towing the boat all the way to the French base, and that it would be best if the boat was just sunk and we could get on with chasing the whalers. Later that day, Chuck and I went to the Ady Gil, and I performed the necessary tasks with Chuck observing. Ady Gil then gradually took on water, and later that night she was left to sink, while the Bob Barker moved on to pursue the fleet.”

“I felt horrid before, during and after the scuttling and I have felt terrible about it ever since. It broke me heart to sink a vessel that had been such a big part of my life, and I also felt we had betrayed SSCS sponsors, SSCS supporters, Ady Gil, and the public by lying about it. It was a totally dishonest thing to do and as a conservation group, the order is a total breach of ethics.”

“I sincerely regret my role in this. I apologise unreservedly to Ady Gil, and Sea Shepherd Volunteers and supporters, all of whom I have let down. It was the wrong thing to do, and while I was under orders to do so, I should have refused to carry out the instructions. I am resigning from Sea Shepherd forthwith.”

From what we can infer from this first point, the Ady Gil, in Pete’s eyes, was apparently quite salvageable. Watson, however, did not want to waste time dragging it back to port for repair — and one can assume that a sunk vessel would bring better PR than a crippled one. But in a response on Pete’s Facebook page to this point, Watson points out that the decision was mutual. “On camera on Whale Wars I asked Pete if we should scuttle the vessel because it could not be salvaged,” he says. “He agreed. We did so to avoid leaving it as a navigational hazard.”

Perhaps Pete felt pressured to do this? Either way, he’s miffed and disappointed in the decision — saying at the end of his letter that having “been party to the deliberate sinking of the Ady Gil, I do not deserve the support of other volunteers and supporters who deserve its members to act with honesty and integrity.”

Concern #2: The Bow and Arrow Issue

Pete Says: “When I met with Paul Watson in July 2009, he gave me permission to take a Bow and Arrow to Antarctica, with the idea of pasting a poison on the arrow tips (or fake poison), and firing them into dead whales while they were being transferred from harpoon vessel to processing ship. When I met Paul on the Steve Irwin in Antarctica, I confirmed all tactics, and he again said I had permission to use the bow and arrow if we came across a suitable situation.”

“After the Ady Gil was scuttled, crew of the Shonan Maru found four arrows in the water. SSCS issued a press release denying all knowledge of the arrows, suggesting instead that the whalers had planted them as false evidence. There was no need to say anything at all. The story was the Ady Gil had sunk…not that some arrows had been found. No one really cared about four arrows when the whalers had explosive harpoons and 12 gauge shotguns.”

“In issuing the press release, SSCS was lying to media. It was a mistake to ever deny the arrows, and the communications debacle since then has been a total disgrace. While I was imprisoned in Japan, senior Sea Shepherd people saw that the bow and arrow was to appear in the first episode of whale wars, and Lizard Productions refused to delete the scenes. SSCS wrongly felt they were in for a backlash about perceived violent tactics. They decided to expel me from SSCS. I have had this meeting verified by two sources. Chuck Swift falsely claimed in a press release that I took a banned weapon to Antarctica. Paul Watson then backs up Chuck by agreeing that he had no knowledge of the bow and arrow, and that yes I was expelled from SSCS.”

Concern #3: The False Expulsion from Sea Shepherd

Pete says: “Several people left Sea Shepherd in protest at my treatment, and many others threatened to never support SSCS again. SSCS then goes into damage control. It announces they had not really expelled me, but in fact had done it to assist in my sentencing. Note my lawyers believed the tactic did not really help my cause, as it portrayed me as dishonest – it implied for example I had taken a bow and arrow without the permission of Paul Watson. The lawyers repeatedly told me they had nothing to do with the expulsion, and they certainly would never have recommended it.
My legal team in fact only found out about the expulsion after it was announced to media. My legal team did include the expulsion in court evidence, reasoning it was now in the public domain, and the Judges would already be aware of it. But in no way did my legal team ever request, recommend or suggest that my expulsion would in any way assist with sentencing.”

“On getting out of prison, Paul Watson said to me I was not expelled, and I was welcome back on all future campaigns. Several other senior SSCS people however confirmed that the expulsion was because of the bow and arrow, but the increasing backlash against my treatment had made SSCS come up with a suitable guise – in this case, it was all part of the master strategy to help with sentencing.”

Concern #4: The Secret Agreement with Japanese Judges

Pete says, “In August while I was in LA I said to both Paul that I wished to go on the next Antarctica campaign. Paul said there were some reservations about my going to Japan, and he suggested that a deal had been done with the Japanese judiciary. After several conversations and subsequent emails, he confirmed we really owed the Japanese nothing, I could go on the next campaign, I could do my Pacific Yellowfin project, and SSCS would help to promote and sell my book. A few weeks later the number of books SSCS would purchase was agreed at 800. This order was placed on my authors account with the publishers.”

“Then in September, I was again told that SSCS had made a supposed secret agreement with Japanese Judges. This entailed my not participating in another Antarctica campaign, in exchange for a suspended sentence. This of course is in contrast with Paul and Laurens’ assurances on my release that I was still a bona fide member of SSCS and welcome on the next Antarctica campaign. It also contradicts the email sent from Paul following my release.
I have spoken to lawyers in Japan, a Japanese prosecutor, and several Japanese Journalists, and all have said it would be impossible for SSCS to reach any secret deal with the Judges. There is in fact no evidence to support this. No one knows who made the deal, which judges it was with, and what the specific terms were. It would represent interference in the judicial system.”

“If the head of the biggest Yakuza faction, incidentally some 3 cells down from mine in the Tokyo Detention Centre, and with many millions of dollars in assets at his disposal – well if he cannot make a deal with the Judiciary, what hope does an organisation like SSCS, routinely derided and despised in Japan as a terrorist organisation, have of cutting an illegal deal? The answer of course is none. There was no secret deal with the Judiciary. My legal team all along said a suspended sentence was inevitable, as long as I cooperated with the Prosecutor and acted humble and contrite in court…which I did. If I refused to say anything however, they said the trial would take years and cost millions. I was advised if I took the “nobody talks, everybody walks” approach, I would be detained for a much longer period. So under advice from the legal counsel, I did agree to things to expedite the trial. This included pleading guilty to four charges, and acknowledging that Paul Watson was the Admiral of the fleet and gave instructions to me.”

Concern #5: The Faked Shooting of Paul Watson

Pete says, “A number of crew on the Bob Barker and Steve Irwin were discussing the alleged shooting of Paul Watson. In the first series of Whale Wars, Paul Watson was supposedly shot by crew of the Nisshin M…aru. SSCS Crew present on that voyage argued strongly to me that the entire episode was faked. I was not on the campaign, so in fact I don’t know if it is in fact true or not. However given what I’ve witnessed in the last year, and my knowledge of the Japanese crew, I would bet $500,000 at odds of 10:1, that the event was staged. The shooting represents just another lie that does little for the credibility of SSCS. The organisation does not need to lie or be deceptive to sell its message. The public will support the cause of stopping whaling, however they will not support SSCS if they become aware of the many lies the organisation increasingly propagates through media.”

Conclusion: What I Am Requesting

Pete says, “What really concerns me most is the apparent moral bankruptcy of senior SSCS personnel. They routinely conspire and lie over serious matters, with little regard for people like myself who they malign and bulldoze along the way. They misrepresent themselves to the public who are generous enough to support them, and to media who they rely on to promote their cause.”

“The short time I have been associated with SSCS, and the sheer number of lies I’ve witnessed, makes me realise there is a large and increasing number of skeletons hidden in the SSCS closet. It is time for this closet to be closed (or opened fully) and for the organisation to move on. I am asking that from now on, SSCS determine to act in an honest way with its volunteers, supporters and media. SSCS does not need to lie. Saving whales, dolphins, tuna and sharks are noble causes, and the public will embrace these as worthwhile. The story does not need to be manipulated and changed in order to get public support. Secondly, volunteers like myself should be treated honestly and with respect. If an agreement is made with a volunteer, then it should be honoured. This process of agreeing to things, only to renege a month or two later is simply unacceptable for a volunteer organisation. Since returning home I have been contacted by numerous volunteers all unhappy at how SSCS has treated them. The sheer number of complaints suggests that SSCS routinely treats Volunteers with contempt.”

“As of today, I am resigning from Sea Shepherd. Having been party to the deliberate sinking of the Ady Gil, I do not deserve the support of other volunteers and supporters who deserve its members to act with honesty and integrity. I am also tired of the management team that I now perceive as morally bankrupt.”

“My biggest disappointment is I truly love the many Sea Shepherd volunteers and supporters who have made such a massive impact, especially in shining the spotlight on Japanese whaling. I hope that from here, the organisation can regroup and move forward with resolve and purpose, and with a new modus operandi that has it dealing honestly with volunteers, supporters and media. There is no one else currently in Antarctica stopping whaling, and so Sea Shepherd has a vital role to play. They also have an obligation however to be true to the people that provide labour, funding and resource for the organisation to survive.”

—-

This is a lot to digest — and much more will be playing out online over the next couple days as this war of words heats up. Already Watson has fired back saying,

“Perhaps it might explain things Pete if you let everyone know that we discovered that you gave testimony to the Japanese police that accused me of ordering you onto the Shonan Maru #2. They told you they wanted me, not you, and you swore a statement against me in return for leniency.

“And when I confronted you on this, …you sent me a message that was plain and simply – blackmail. You said that unless we gave in to your demands, you were prepared to release falsified information about Sea Shepherd and you implied you would cooperate further unless you got your way. I will post these threats tomorrow. Sea Shepherd has nothing to hide. Blackmail and cooperation with the Japanese prosecutors to frame me! This is hardly honourable stuff Pete.”

“You’re not the victim here Pete. You agreed to cooperate with the Japanese. That is the reason you cannot return to the Southern Ocean with us.”

We’ve got lots to discuss — so let’s get started down below.

UPDATE #1: Ady Gil has thrown in his two cents regarding Pete’s claims above — and he supports the man 100%. From his Facebook page:

“Pete is a positive man. He asked me not to say bad things about SSCS, even when Paul asked him NOT to go to my “Bow and Arrow” party, the one I specially arranged for Pete and invited everybody, including Paul himself. This is not Pete’s retaliation against Sea Shepherd. For a man like Pete to come so strongly forward, he had to be pushed very hard. He does not ever talk bad about people. I hope they do not push me to do the same….my list is just as long.”

UPDATE #2: Sea Shepherd have publicly broken all ties with Bethune. “We cannot allow him to return as a Sea Shepherd crewmember and continue to ignore our rules of engagement, and that means, among other things, no weapons and no derogatory references to the Japanese people.”

About Michael dEstries

Michael has been blogging since 2005 on issues such as sustainability, renewable energy, philanthropy, and healthy living. He regularly contributes to a slew of publications, as well as consulting with companies looking to make an impact using the web and social media. He lives in Ithaca, NY with his family on an apple farm.

View all posts by Michael dEstries →
  • AnimuX

    I don’t think many people understand just how long the whale war has really been going on (1st direct action was in 1975 – Paul Watson was there with Greenpeace). Or the dance that Sea Shepherd has to do before the cameras to get away with attempting to stop whaling in such a brazen manner. In the end, there is no other organization willing to take the risks they take and all people, pride and material things are sacrificed in the process because it’s about whales and nothing else matters.

    It’s upsetting when your elected politicians lie because they have an obligation to the public. Sea Shepherd’s only obligation is to finish what they’ve started and do everything possible to win the whale war. Everything Pete has stated is probably true but this looks like two stars (Pete Bethune and Paul Watson) competing for the spotlight. That’s just how I see it.

    Pete has his qualities but he doesn’t have 35 YEARS of direct action and activism to prove his dedication. Hell, he’s already bailing out on the whale war and it’s only been 1 campaign.

    So here’s something to think about: Jenny May (strangled by Russian dolphin traffickers with her own belt) and Jane Tipson (shot in the neck at close range in St. Lucia) were both murdered for their participation in anti-whaling activism. Pete got a slap on the wrist after a brief stay in a Japanese jail. It’s time to stop claiming fame for what you “sacrifice” for the whales. The whales aren’t saved – yet.

    Sooner or later, people involved in environmental activism need to learn the meaning of the words “selfless service”. Including Pete.

    I like Pete from what I’ve seen of him. But I’m not going to turn my back on the whale war because he feels like he got a raw deal.

    The “Save the Whales” movement is not about Pete Bethune or Paul Watson or any individual human being. It’s about protecting whales from hunting, habitat destruction, pollution and other anthropogenic threats.

    It’s not about Pete and it’s not about any of us (other than humanity collectively needs to treat the planet better). Contrary to the latest Animal Planet tag-line for the show, “it’s about the whales”.

    These interpersonal over-dramatic conflicts between Paul Watson and Pete Bethune are MEANINGLESS when it comes to the real effort of putting ships in the water to stop whalers from killing whales in a whale sanctuary.

    • truthisenough

      I think the point is – why lie to save the whales when you can tell the truth to save them? Trust is a valuable commodity in this day and age, and lies foster fear and distrust.

      • Hufingraz

        Truthisenough – Well said.

    • TrueMetis

      Paul Watson doesn’t know the first thing about being selfless. He does on the other hand know a lot about making money by appealing to people’s emotions and lying.

      FYI anyone who really wants to save whales isn’t going to do it by attacking people by ramming their ship and throwing acid at them. That’s the type of thing terrorists do.

      If you do want to stop whaling (I don’t care as long as it is being done as humanely as possible) you would be trying to get government support yet for some reason no one does.

    • Stopthegreed

      Well said, I think people should dig alittle deeper and they would find Pete Bethunes not all that squeaky clean himself. And from what ive learnt he new very little about the Whales till he Joined Sea Shepherd 12 mths ago. His email to Paul is very clear. Do what i say and give me what i want or i will try and tear you down. Weird… Now didnt he say he couldnt be apart of a group who were corrupt and morally bankrupt?? And thats why he resigned??. So why send an email in reply to Pauls making demands?? I think Pete needs to come clean properly and just say it.. Hes here for the glory. He has never saved any whales but he has made a name for himself and brought attention to the issue which is a good thing. But there are many people out there who have or are willing to do the same and dont ask for anything in exchange. Pottes and giles both boarded a harpoon ship and never made demands. Pete needs to go back to killing animals (which i think he has) and leave the saving up to others who do it for the animals not themselves.

      • TNHunter

        I feel that both Paul and Pete are good men, however I believe both are misguided on this issue as they have let their feelings and disagreements cloud what is really important – saving whales. I feel that both are right in some ways and wrong in others. I know that what I am about to say will not make sense to most and many will disagree, but I want my voice heard. I believe your remark, Stopthegreed, about Pete killing animals is below the belt. There is a difference in hunting and killing. Many conservationists, Teddy Roosevelt for example, are avid hunters and fishers. I hunt deer, ducks, and other game birds, and I hate that there are “hunters” out there that give true, lawful hunters a bad name. I hunt and harvest deer because I believe that this beautiful animal deserves better than to be smeared all over the road. I choose to make the best of what God has blessed us with, I only take a shot, gun or bow alike, only if I am sure I can make a clean shot and not simply injure and inflict pain. I am sorry, I know its nature, but I would rather shoot a large buck, that’s a male deer if you don’t know, than have him fight with another, and possibly get entangled and one of them break their neck. I have seen where this has happened, and the live one is eventually eaten alive by predators. What is so humane about that? I have no respect for any hunter who needlessly slaughters animals or does so unlawfully, and that is exactly what the Japanese whalers are doing. They have repeatedly been asked by the IWC to suspend indefinitely their deadly tactics to which the Japanese simply stick up their middle fingers and say “F#@K YOU, WHALE!” This is why I support Sea Shepard’s cause to stop whaling.

  • David

    “Everything Pete has stated is probably true but…”

    That’s OK because anything is OK to protect whales, even lying to the world, Right?

    Such a great attitude and the anti-whalers like to claim the moral high ground but it is OK to lie not just to the media but to you the volunteers and the donors?

    “Sea Shepherd’s only obligation is to finish what they’ve started and do everything possible to win the whale war.”

    I think the donors, volunteers amd IRS might just have a slightly different view on this. A 501c(3) charity can lose its tax-exempt charity status for lying to get donations, and the IRS can even levee back taxes.

    If as you seem to believe, AnimuX, that Peter Bethune is telling the truth and by extension Ady Gil is telling the truth, then the SSCS better hope there is no paper trail. And Paul Watson better hope so too because as the president of SSCS he could be liable for civil and criminal charges.

    This all kind of makes you wonder why a long time board member left SSCS earlier this year.

    Looks like lots of people may have an ax to grind with Paul, and even if it is for personal reason, if there are truely skeletons it could not only seriously damage SSCS but by association other animal welfare charities. Most of whom are already hurting due to the economy.

    • http://www.youtube.com/kababayanC2 kababayanC2

      This remark has been removed due to a violation of our commenting policy.

    • Ronaldo

      There is no lie worth telling to win a war. On one side is truth, on the other side is lies. As soon as you step from the side of truth you have lost. Plain and simple. Who will ever know the real truth behind the words of Pete and Paul, speculate all you like. But when the rats start jumping ship you know something is amiss. Most wars are won through “heart and mind” winning tactics, the whale war is a fine example of this. But when a group takes a “moral high ground” their operations need to be 100% transparent. At the moment their is a dark cloud surrounding SSCS and this will only hurt their credibility and as David said, by association, the credibility of other environmental organizations. SSCS is not the only player in the whale war. I fully support what SSCS is trying to achieve, but not to the extent that they can act like little kids throwing tantrums and nobody can deny that infighting is the fastest way to sink a ship. The Japanese will be loving this, watching SSCS destroy itself from within. This is what happens when egos and a “do anything to win at any cost” attitude get in the way of the final objective. Divide and conquer tactics are the most efficient way of destroying your enemy and as of right now the cracks in SSCS are well and truly starting to appear.

      • imforthewhales

        The only dark cloud is Japanese whaling.

    • Don Madio

      Then get a job Niles & stop blaming Paul for your ignorance. Really, it’s getting tired:>(‘…….

  • AnimuX

    Obviously, pro-whaling antagonists and people who spend most of their time attempting to demonize anti-whaling activists will jump on any opportunity to attack organizations like Sea Shepherd.

    Pro-whalers like to define the “moral high ground” according to their own desires.

    The high ground by pro-whaling standards is (and actually committed by Japan and other whaling nations):

    1) exceeding whaling quotas and lying about it (pirate whaling AND commercial whaling)

    2) exceeding quotas and claiming exemption to limits enacted by international agreement

    3) killing endangered species and not reporting it (pirate whaling and commercial whaling)

    4) killing endangered species and claiming exemption despite endangered/protected status

    5) lying about the impact of whales on fish populations to justify quota increases and manipulate developing countries (governments)

    6) hunting whales out of season and in restricted areas (pirate whaling and commercial whaling)

    7) killing undersized whales and lying about it (pirate whaling and commercial whaling)

    8) bribing officials in exchange for support in IWC votes (governments)

    9) repeatedly abusing article VIII of the ICRW in order to continue commercial whaling in violation of international agreement and lying about it by calling it “research” (governments)

    and more…

    As I don’t represent Sea Shepherd I have no insight into the accusations made by Pete Bethune and can therefore not confirm or deny any of it as true or false.

    Whatever raw deal Pete Bethune “feels” he received, it does not change the fact that Sea Shepherd has made an impact in its efforts to get Japan to adhere to the international moratorium on commercial whaling.

    • David

      This topic is about the reported lies and actions of Paul Watson and the SSCS not the history of whaling.

      “As I don’t represent Sea Shepherd I have no insight into the accusations made by Pete Bethune and can therefore not confirm or deny any of it as true or false.”

      But you were willing to say; “Everything Pete has stated is probably true …”

      And wouldn’t it be a massive shame to have all the good work that SSCS has done for the past 35 years be destroyed because Paul Watson is an egomaniac and a liar?

    • Boo radley

      Yeah well said Animux…

      Paul Watson has been at the helm for 30 years or more.

      Sea shepherd will still set sail for the Southern Ocean sometime in the next few months. if past years are anything to go by they will be very successful at helping prevent the deaths of many whales.

    • Don Madio

      Very well articulated AnimuX. Ignore Niles, he’s had an axe to grind since 1982 & he finally got his forum to do so.

      • AnimuX

        There are several pro-whaling antagonists who crud up the ecorazzi articles with constant attacks on Sea Shepherd.

        They’re all part of a wider ongoing negative campaign against all environmental activism.

  • Sink the poachers

    Any lie that saves the life a whale is a lie worth telling. Shame Pete didn’t learn that.

    • Kimitake Hiraoka

      As ironic as this may be, I thank you for your honesty. You couldn’t have vindicated my point any more succinctly than that.

      • imforthewhales

        Even further irony is that kimitake supports lies…such ss the “research’ whaling lie…oh the irony.

    • Hufingraz

      But what if those lies, end up hurting the organization, like this obviously has? What if it costs the organization thousands of supporters & millions in donations. Which means that organization cannot buy more boats and equipment. Which means less whales are saved. Are the lies worth it then?

    • Michael Raymer

      Huf, I don’t know why you are so keen to take Bethune’s side in this. I watched last seasons “Whale Wars” as I’m sure you did. I have read every word of both sides of this pissing contest, as I hope you have. And, if you have read my posts you see that I have been honestly critical of errors that I think Watson made. I don’t understand where you are getting the impression that Bethune is such a wronged party in this. He was a mediocre captain, he showed that he doesn’t work well with others, he’d rather pull a stunt that gets headlines than do real work that gets results, and he composes a laundry list of supposed grievances that he tried to blackmail SSCS with. What is it that you admire so much?

      “What if it costs the organization thousands of supporters & millions in donations. Which means that organization cannot buy more boats and equipment. Which means less whales are saved. Are the lies worth it then?” Then it will be Pete Bethune’s fault and no one elses. If I had any other answer to give, I would give it. I don’t.

      • Hufingraz

        Michael,
        I did watch last season and every season of Whale Wars. Almost every episode in season 3, I have watched over 10 times. But it is a TV show, and they edit the show heavily. Until 2 days ago, I would have considered myself slightly obsessed with SS because I believed in what they were doing and I defended Paul & SS numerous times on this very site. I have donated thousands of dollars to SS and I recruited lots of people that had never heard of SS, before I told them and got them involved. But I have always known in the back of my head that I was being lied to about certain things. Things that SS didn’t need to lie about. But I was so obsessed with SS and their cause, that I was letting my passion stand in front of my morals. When Pete came out with what I had always believed to be true anyways, it really made me think. I don’t like or trust liars in my personal life, so why should I be trusting them, supporting or sticking up for them?
        Do you believe the “shooting” was staged?
        Do you believe that Paul knew nothing about the bow and arrow, when he first released the statement that the arrows must have been planted by the Japanese?
        Do you believe that Paul knew nothing about “Black Fish”?
        Just alot of things that SS is lying about, that they don’t need to be lying about. That is what makes me question Paul & the entire organization.

      • imforthewhales

        I think tis fine to ask all those questions, but really they are trivial when you know the SS will be down in the SS saving whales this year.

        At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself which is more important?

      • Don Madio

        No you didn’t Huff. If you had, you wouldn’t make these asinine statements….

      • Hufingraz

        Imforthewhales – If you don’t have to lie, then why do it at all? Just like with the “anthrax” scare. Total bullcrap that was done for TV ratings. The anthrax scare did not save any whales lives. I just can no longer support a group that can’t be honest with it’s own members. yes, SS will be down in Antarctica again this year and I am sure Paul will be telling his supporters lots more lies. But I can guarantee that this latest scandal, is going to hurt SS big time. I am even cancelling my Animal Planet channel and letting AP know why I am cancelling it. There are alot of pissed off people that want the truth, not a bunch of manufactured lies.

      • Don Madio

        No, you hope that, but it’s just going to make them even stronger. I personally made another donation yesrerday & will continue to since I became a member in 2005.

        Lies, propaganda & wanting to sell books & harpoons taken from dead whales to sell on eBay say everything you need to know about Pete, his cry-baby crew & the biggest of ‘Em all….EGO!!

      • imforthewhales

        huf…all that means is that you are hurting whales.

  • Michael Raymer

    For my part, I have said many times that if people don’t like SSCS or Paul Watson, put another organization in the Antarctic to pro-actively stop the whaling fleet. As far as Pete Bethune goes, I’m not a big fan of his and I always thought the inclusion of the “Ady Gil” in the campaign was a mistake. As far as what was posted in the article:

    Concern 1: All we know was what was on the show. From what I saw, the “Ady Gil” was not worth saving. The hull is meaningless. Once sea water gets in the engine and electronics, a boat is worthless as it is much more problematic to replace systems than to put them in the original construction. Pete’s obvious personal feeling for the boat are well known and it’s no surprise that he would want her saved at all costs. But, again going by the info available, I think scuttling her was the right call.

    Concern 2: The bow and arrow was a stupid idea. It was stupid of Pete, it was stupid of Paul, it was just plain stupid. There has to be a better way to get butyric acid onto a dead whale and if there isn’t, too bad. How anyone could not foresee the public relations nightmare that just having this device would cause really needs a shot of oxygen.

    Concern 3: I don’t see an issue here. I thought the “expulsion” of Pete was a good idea and I still do. It bears mentioning that Pete appeared with Paul Watson after his return from Japan, which seemed to have nullified said “expulsion”.

    Concern 4: No comment. I have no idea what is being said here and I haven’t seen any previous mention from any source about a “secret deal.”

    Concern 5: This is where Animal Planet needs to step up to the plate and show wahtever footage there was. I truly believe that there is much more footage (at least of before and after) and I know selective editing when I see it. I have been skeptical about this incident myself. I have a knowledge of firearms and of boats and this was one helluva shot. I just didn’t think Watson would be stupid enough to try to stage something like this, with cameras around. Reading the above, I am keeping in mind that Pete was not present and is merely repeating heresay evidence. And since he seems to be pissed, that should be taken into consideration.

    I would also repeat what I have said in earlier threads that Bethune boarding the whaling vessel was another stupid move and it was HIS idea. It was right there on Whale Wars where Paul told him that he should go home and work the media. Bethune persisted and Paul gave his unenthusiastic permission. Again, bad call. But all subsequent events, including this particular shitstorm is Pete’s doing, not Watson’s.

    • David

      Sorry but Paul is in charge of the boat and crew. If he wants to be Captain, or Admiral, then he has to take the responsibility. Everything that happened on those boats was Paul’s responsibility. And we have seen that on the Steve Irwin they don’t sneeze without asking Paul. So whether it was ‘reluctant’ or not he agreed to the boarding of the Shonan Maru and he is responsible.

      • fishinbeaverguy

        Paul Watson isn’t even a real captain, he has NEVER been licensed to captain a boat! So while he is the leader of the organization he is not a captain!

      • Don Madio

        Ummmmm, yes he is & has been. Now it’s getting a little silly…..

      • Hufingraz

        Holy crap, Hell must have frozen over. I finally have found something that I have to agree with David on. Paul is the Admiral and he is responsible for the actions of every single person on his boats. Paul knew exactly what Pete was doing, and he encouraged him to do it. Paul always goes on about “nobody talks, everybody walks”, but it is really a load of crap. Alex Cornelissen & Peter Hammarstedt didn’t talk, but they didn’t walk either. They just didn’t show up for their trial, which resulted in them being found guilty of their crimes and never being allowed to enter Canada again. Then there was Alex Cornelissen & Allison Lance, who didn’t talk, but didn’t walk either. Both of them were found guilty of their crimes and both are never allowed to enter Japan again. So who exactly does the “nobody talks, everybody walks” policy work for? I think what Paul meant to say was, “nobody talks and Paul gets to walk”. A few months ago, when Paul made Interpol’s Blue List, he commented that the Blue List meant nothing and he didn’t care that he was on it. But now he is whining like a little baby because he was held up for a few hours at the US/Canada border because of the Blue List. I loved Sea Shepherd because they were the only ones that were actually doing anything to make a significant difference. But I definitely do not like how Paul has treated Pete in this whole situation. I do know wherever Pete goes, is where my money is going to start going too. Pete is right when he said that Sea Shepherd does not need to lie to try and gain supporters. The cause itself is what gets supporters. The dishonesty does nothing to help the cause and I think it actually has a huge negative effect because it makes some of their biggest supporters question everything that comes out of Paul’s mouth. You don’t know when he is lying and when he is telling the truth. It is sad that Paul’s ego has gotten so big, that he is losing track of what matters, and that is the whales. Even if Pete did give a statement against Paul, who really cares? Paul himself said, “When you are willing to give your life for the whales, 15 years in prison is nothing.” So what is Paul worried about then?

      • imforthewhales

        There is a big chance Pete Bethune will be heading over to another anti-whaling organization that is being set up. with enough support, there can be two groups, possibly three, working the Southern Ocean this year. Perhaps this will all turn out way better than expected.

      • Don Madio

        Jesus, how many tummies are you going to say the same thing Niles?

        Give it a rest…..PLEASE.

        There are some great discussions here & your jealousy of Paul Watson is getting old…..Grow Up!

      • Annie

        Admiral is a military term . The SSCS is not the military, a fact which continually escapes the Sea Sheep…

      • Don Madio

        David, Annie, I mean Niles. I’d stop now as more truths are coming out contradicting everything you post. Nice try though! Gotta give your ego props there……

      • Don Madio

        Wah, Wah Annie, I mean David…..

    • Michael Raymer

      At what point did you see someone asking Watson for permission to sneeze? And at what point did I not say that Watson agreed to Bethune’s action? But, it was at Bethune’s insistance, so Pete can’t lay the blame on anyone else. A viewing of the applicable episodes of “Whale Wars” bears this out. It was Bethune who formulated this plan, so he holds responsibility for how things turned out.

      • David

        Sorry, the Captain of a boat is responsible for everything that happens on the boat.

      • Don Madio

        500th time you’ve said the same thing Niles. Are you that stupid that you can’t talk about anything except wanting so desperately to accomplish 1/3 of Watson’s achievements?????

      • David

        That is the 500th time you have implied I am someone else. Are you that stupid that you can’t talk about anything except wanting desperately to accomplish anything?

        Any proof of you accusation? Now you seem to believe I am this Niles person and also someone named Annie. Can you just make up you mind who I am and prove it?

    • romika3

      Here is an observation. You folks base everything you know about a cause from a TV show and a few propoganda web pages. Isn’t that amazing.

      • AnimuX

        Books that will educate on the history of whaling:

        Men and Whales – Richard Ellis
        The Whale War – David Day
        Harpoon: Into the Heart of Whaling – Andrew Darby
        Whaling in Japan – Jun Morikawa
        The History of Modern Whaling – Tonnessen and Johnsen

  • Geordin

    I regularly donate to various charities and Orgs such as the SSCS. I’ll tell you right now, I don’t like being lied to. As much as I hate whaling I will not be donating to this particular Org again until they clean up their act.

  • HellfireJack

    If anything is excusable to save whales why is Paul Watson so afraid of owning the actions of the SSCS as their leader. He hides behind lies and maintains plausible deniability in everything he does. Watson is a criminal and a coward.

    • Stopthegreed

      Dont you love it when men sit behind their computers and call real men cowards lol cracks me up

  • mister jingles

    sea shepherd does much and i love captain paul watson for everything he is doing for the helpless animals! i can understand the position of pete because where much is done also mistakes can happen! but the cause for which these heroes – pete and paul – are standing for is more important than shepherd-internal problems which they should resolve as soon as possible! the animals need you!!!!!!!

    • Don Madio

      Well said mate. Pete’s 15 minutes are almost up.

      Paul and the SSCS will last FOREVER!

  • Don Madio

    Shame on you Pete. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt to sell your book & make you rich. None of your points have any sustainable truth & you will be exposed for the liar you are. All season you drilled Watson to board the Japanese security vessel for revenge & now you have the nerve to blame SSCS for a Japanese terrorist vessel ramming the Ady Gil intentionally. I could go on, but it would do nothing more than provide you the exposure you so desperately crave. The sheer fact that your comment about selling a harpoon on eBay after a whale has been illegally killed speaks volumes of your character. I knew you were a fraud the 1st time I saw you & soon everyone else will too. Meanwhile, the Japanese get to illegally slaughter more whales b/c of your thirst for money & fame. Pathetic mate…..

    • David

      More supporters lying to try and make Pete look bad.

      Pete never said the collision was intentional and SSCS’s fault. He said the decision to scuttle the Ady Gil was SSCS’s fault.

      Maybe you could get at least some facts right.

      • Don Madio

        I stand corrected. I misread the accusation & apologize. Pete did not say that.

      • Don Madio

        As for the other comments I’ve made, I stand by them 100%, so feel free toi correct any other opinions you don’t agree with, including his insubordination & disregard for the safety of the volunteers.

      • Don Madio

        I take back what I said. Pete didn’t say it, but Watson gave him the decision to make…..On Camera; more than once. Get your shit straight man. Your lies are starting to confuse me & that’s pretty sad considering WHO you are…..

      • David

        And we saw ALL the video and EVERY conversation? Or did we see a much edited version of what happened?

        Excuse me if I believe someone who was present over an edited 5 minutes of video.

        No maybe if you would point out some of these lies I could again show you that you are wrong.

  • Stephanie

    I pretty much agree with Michael’s above comments. Mistakes were made, there is a lot of hersay and hurt feelings.

    What really sucks about this is EITHER way, the whales are the one paying the real price if this PR nightmare.

    • http://facebook lrolegal

      sign the divorce papers already! the past is full of bad decisions, ill feelings and hurtful words. i have worked in defense litigation and am fully aware of what needs to be said/done both on and off the record to make things work. it has been done by both sides here and neither can avoid the displeasant taste in their mouths nor try to salvage public perceptions. is it what it is. MOVE ON! there is greater work to be done than playing in the sandbox and complaining about the catpoop! learn from your mistakes and plan for the next campaign. set your moral and navigational compasses on doing the next season’s work in a zealous, honest and legal manner. do not stray from that plan. it will eliminate the need for all of this mudslinging which only serves to damage the cause and make those willing to support you (spiritually and financially)more reticent to do so.

      • drewks

        I think this may have been the best reply in this whole conversation.

        Te word war is not helping either Bethune or Watson, and it’s therefore certainly not helping the whales =/

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Enrique-Duprat/7013512 David Enrique Duprat

    You should probably mention that Pete spent 5 months in Jail for Sea Shepherd. Try to report THE WHOLE TRUTH.

    • Don Madio

      You want the whole truth?

      Pete Bethune was told by Peter that he could face 5 years for interfering with Japanese commercial fishing. He arrogantly scoffed, said multiple times he was ready to go to jail, for the Society to NOT let the Japanese Government return him to New Zealand, risked his & his mates life boarding the IM #2 @ night in the Antarctic & continually bragged that he couldn’t wait to board & arrest the Japanese captain.

      He also hugged the crew & said happily, “see you in Japan.”

      Now he’s the victim. Please. This is the biggest joke being played on the public since Milli Vinilli. You people can’t be that blind!!! Either that or you have NOT done your homework & are he’ll-bent on discrediting Watson & the brave members of Sea Shepherd.

      • David

        Yes do your homework. Try looking up what a captain is responsible for. “Captain” Watson wants the title then he has the responsibility.

      • Don Madio

        Pete Bethune is a captain sir. Please stop making yourself look like the amateur you are Niles……

      • Hufingraz

        yes, and Paul Watson is the leader of Sea Shepherd. No tactics are done without Paul authorizing them. In the military, if the Captain authorizes something, who is responsible? The guy pulling the trigger or the Captain that told him to do it. Even if it was Pete’s idea, Paul authorized it. Paul is proving that he doesn’t mind talking the talk, but he is not prepared to walk the walk. Paul should try and board one of the Japanese ships this season, after the Japanese ram him again. Oh wait, that will never happen because Paul would never do 15 years in jail for the sake of the whales. NEVER.
        By the way, until 2 days ago, I was a huge supporter of Sea Shepherd’s. I defended Paul when I knew he was lying, such as with the “shooting”, the “bow and arrow incident” and “Black Fish”. It wasn’t until Pete stood-up and pointed out the multiple lies being told by Sea Shepherd, that I said to myself, “Why am I defending Paul and SS?” He is lying to me and every other SS supporter about stupid crap that he doesn’t need to lie about. So if he would lie about stupid crap, what else would he lie about? Morally, I just can’t give anymore money or support to an organization that can’t even tell the truth to it’s own supporters.

      • Michael Raymer

        “In the military, if the Captain authorizes something, who is responsible? The guy pulling the trigger or the Captain that told him to do it.”

        The guy pulling the trigger. If you want to argue with me on this, look up My Lai before you do. Also keep in mind that I served 8 years in the Army and am a combat vet. The guy pulling the trigger bears the final responsibility.

        To use your military analogy, Bethune was a sub-unit commander. He was captain of the Ady Gil and, again going with your analogy, had specific rights as to how to respond to its sinking. Watson did give authorization but, only at the very forceful request of Pete Bethune. We can keep going back and forth about this. But to go back, one last time to your military analogy, when did you ever see a General getting court-martialed for every last offense commited by every last Private (or Sergeant or Captain or Colonel) under his command.

      • Mick

        Michael Raymer

        “when did you ever see a General getting court-martialed for every last offense commited by every last Private (or Sergeant or Captain or Colonel) under his command.”

        Nuremberg?

      • Michael Raymer

        Nice answer. The Privates, Sergeants, Captains, Colonels, etc were also tried for the actions that they took. And the Nazi hierarchy got convicted when it was proven that they had an active part in the Holocaust. Look up Wannsee Conference and see what punishments were handed down for whom.

        Incidently, this is what I mean by you “swinging at me”, which you flatly denied. We’re talking about whaling, SSCS, Paul Watson and Pete Bethune. Leave it to Mick to bring Nuremburg into the discussion. No argumentation for its own sake there. None at all.

      • Mick

        Michael Raymer

        “No argumentation for its own sake there.”

        You asked a question. I gave you a straight- forward one word answer. The fact that you choose to interpret my reply as argumenative, is your problem. Not mine.

      • Michael Raymer

        No, the fact that your reply was argumentative is everyones problem. The fact that I gave you a valid answer that refutes your sad little point, and this is the best you can respond with, is your problem.

      • David

        Well Michael experience in the Navy might be a better analog for the SSCS situation.

        And I have seen a Captain lose his career because a submarine helmsman on orders from the DOOW and the NAV hit a seamount. The others all got some punishment but at each step down the ladder the punishment was much less severe than what the Captain got. By the time it reached the helmsman he was just restricted to the boat for a month (during a 2 month cruise) and had to re-qualify his watchstation.

        I know of many other similar situations and a search of the news will find a number of cases where ship’s Captains have taken the brunt of the punishment for mistakes of their crew.

        Here is just one more example;
        http://www.ssbn611.org/uss_san_francisco.htm

        In this case the Squadron and Group were even held responsible.

    • Annie

      SEA SHPEHERD IS NOT THE MILITARY, and it is so sad that some of you truly believe they are….

      • Don Madio

        No ‘Annie’ / ‘David’, you are the sad one.

    • Stopthegreed

      Hang on a second. So Pete spent 5 months in jail for Sea Shepherd??..So thats where Petes gone wrong. He was suppose to have done it for the whales not Sea Shepherd. I actually believe he did it for himself. And may people who know Pete would agree. He has an ego the size of Australia and a house full of stuffed animals hes killed. The whole selling the Harpoon on ebay is only half the story. If Animal planet hadnt edited it you would have heard the cutting out of the whales jaw and the hanging of it on the wall inside his house comment.

  • morality

    AnimuX: Amen.

  • Brandon

    Pete has disappointed me greatly. I actually figured this was coming and Pete Bethune has really done more to disgrace himself then the organization, is what I can only call propaganda, is Pete Bethune was trying to join Sea Shepherd on their next campaign, but upon learning that Pete Bethune had been secretly talking with Japanese authorities on sea shepherd made this an impossible act for Sea Shepherd to take, because it would simply be dis honorable to let someone who betrayed his friends to join them again, to do the same thing to SSCS again.
    SSCS also had a deal with the court that Bethune would not go, they’ve stated this, and it’s how it was since the beginning.
    But Pete since his release has been delusional about this, he stated for months on his facebook page that he would surely join SSCS on their next campaign, even stating he’d be on the Bob Barker vessel, this of course was all of his own imagination and in no way supported or confirmed by the organization.
    The day before his explosion of emotion he was even talking to all of his facebook followers talking about how excited he felt about sending an email to join sea shepherd on their next campaign, even oddly stating that he felt like a fly on the wall to this upcoming season. But the moment he was denied he had threatened the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society with his “facts” that are aimed at destroying the sea shepherd conservation societies image, but SSCS would not be worked over by threats and contacted the media themselves to tell them of Bethune and his actions.
    I respect Bethune for what he did, but I can not respect someone who will put himself before the cause, who will allow his ego to grow so big that he feels the ability to bully people to his whims. Past good actions doesn’t justify present corruptness Pete, I hope you learn this in your attempt to destroy the sea shepherd conservation society.

    • David

      Nice rewrite of history.

      You seem to forget that as soon as Pete was out of Japan, Paul said the SSCS statement disavowing Pete was a trick and Pete was more than welcome to come on this years campaign.

      But of course now you have to try and pretend that never happened so you can paint Pete as the problem. Of course Paul, SSCS and their supporters have been rewriting the past for decades, so I guess it is to be expected.

      • Don Madio

        WTF’n side are you on man?

        You make perfect sense in your first paragraph, then completely contradict yourself in the 2nd???????

        Paul & the SSCS repeatedly told CNN & other news organizations that Pete was out so that the Japanese Gov’t would think he was no longer associated with them anymore for a more lenient sentence. It was a great move & why Bethune is free today. Well that and the $750K + the Society spent on his defense.

        Are you people also forgetting that Pete said he completely understood the tactic & appreciated it; that he just didn’t understand @ the time b/c the Society did not want the Japanese Gov’t to know in order for it to sound legitimate (they didn’t even tell his family so it would look genuine.)

        The Ady Gil was NOT Pete’s boat. It belonged to the SSCS built from money donated from Ady Gil, who is currently still financing other anti-whaling devices for the Society.

        This is a farce & I just can’t believe anyone doesn’t see Bethune for the whore he is…..?????

      • David

        Gee you really don’t know any of the history do you?

        The Earthrace was built long before Ady Gil entered the picture. It wasn’t built for the SSCS. And the SSCS never owned it, Ady Gil owned it and leased it to the SSCS.

      • Don Madio

        I’m well aware of the history of the original boat’s purpose. I’m also aware that SSCS was given $2 million dollars to make the boat worthy of Matilda’s campaign. Apparently, I’m striking a nerve with you. The TRUTH always does. Are you a member of SSCS? I doubt it. I am, donate regularly & volunteer when I can. So yes, I know my history my friend….

      • David

        Well obviously you don’t know you history and will just keep lying to try and cover your ignorance.

        Ady Gil bought the boat from Pete, well actually the corp. that Pete set up, and leased it to the SSCS. It didn’t take $2 million to make it ready for the Matilda campaign, most of that money was for buying the boat.

        So your first statement was wrong when you said the boat belonged to the SSCS and was built with money donated by Ady Gil.

        Your second statement, or as I like to call it your first attempt at tap dancing, was wrong because the SSCS wasn’t given $2 million. Ady Gil used $2 million to by and modify the boat, which he then leased to the SSCS.

        Then you’re wrong in that I am not your friend.

        Apparently, I’m striking a nerve with you. The TRUTH always does.

      • Don Madio

        Other than your childish attempt to bait me, I will stand by whatever everyone thinks about my comments compared to your insidious insinuations….

      • David

        So you will stand by your lies.

        I am good with that. And rational people can draw what conclusion they want from your continued and unapologetic lying.

      • Don Madio

        Do you realize I’ve gotten 22 emails thanking me for putting you in your place & exposing you Niles?

        Tell ya what, let’s take a poll as to the facts presented by you & I, although I’m going to have to find something where you haven’t said the same thing 100 X….

      • Annie

        Don…The SSCS leased the Ady Gil FROM Ady Gil for $1.00 and then destroyed his ship for publicity. Ady himself stated this yesterday. You are pathetic…

      • Don Madio

        Pprotagonist. Are you distant cousins of Goebbels? Sure sounds like it……

      • Stopthegreed

        Sea Shepherd still owe 700,000 to Pete which is due to be paid to him in November. Its in the contract between Sea Shepherd Ady and Pete. Both Ady and Sea Shepherd owned her. Not 1 or the other but both

    • Annie carty annie carty

      i am one of the bully volunteers..UK..he talks the truth :(

    • Mick

      @Brandon

      “..but I can not respect someone who will put himself before the cause, who will allow his ego to grow so big that he feels the ability to bully people to his whims.”

      Sounds like a very accurate description of watson.

    • Max

      “I can not respect someone who will put himself before the cause, who will allow his ego to grow so big that he feels the ability to bully people to his whims.”

      Really Brandon? So you’re not a fan of Paul Watson then?

      • Brandon

        Let’s see now, has Paul sat idol by staying away from his duties? HELL NO, he’s been in a lot hotter water then Pete has, he was in jail for some 120 days facing a many many years by Norway, but he did not speak a word against any of his crew that helped him damage the whaling vessels, Paul was in Canada threatened with life in jail, but did not say a word against those who helped him against the sealers. Paul has been nearly beaten to death, he hardly puts himself or his ego before the organization, he knows his cause supersedes even himself, and has had no problem showing that. Paul Watson has never demanded his crew to board or anything, and made sure they didn’t hurt anyone, but Pete when one of his crew threatened the safety of another member did nothing but LAUGH AND SMILE, he didn’t do a damn thing to ensure the safety of anyone, and has let everything go to his head.
        I appreciate what he’s done, but no longer respect him.

      • Don Madio

        Very well said Brandon. I liked him too, but have no respect for him at all.

  • Lisa

    At this point, I think that the focus should be on the upcoming campaign to stop the Japanese from killing more whales.

    I, too, respect Captain Watson and what he has done over the past years; however, I believe that Pete played an important role in last year’s campaign. As I stated on another page earlier…”No one will ever truly know what happened except those that were present.”

    We all need to remember….there are 3 sides to every story…my story, your story and the truth which is usually a combination of the 2.

    Let’s close this episode and focus on what’s important…saving whales and other marine life and our oceans and supporting those that are on the front lines.

  • Mike

    What threats are SSCS talking about? More lies even here, nothing Pete says here qualifies as a threat!

    Looks like chickens coming home to roost for Paul and his constant lies. I am friends with a number of former on board volunteers and have heard the stories over the last few years. The guy is an egomaniac bull shitter.

    • Don Madio

      Nice try Niles……

      • Don Madio

        My apologies Mike. I was referring to someone else.

  • Rob R

    New bird sub-species identified in New Zealand! The ‘Lesser Bethuneus’ when caged will apparently sing any tune it’s told to sing in order to get released…….

    • Don Madio

      Including selling the Society & his mates out. Then again, it’s not the 1st time for Pete. Anything to boost his ego & book sales.

      Who the F… would by his book, except the Society he just alienated, along with all those that once supported him, even though he put everyones lives @ risk multiple times, disobeying orders & looking for any camera that would listen to his meaningless rants during ‘Operation Matilda.’

      “I hereby resign forthwith.” Dont let the door hit ya in the ass Pete, you farce.

      • Annie carty annie carty

        VERY out of order reply mate

      • Don Madio

        Says YOU….

    • Michael Raymer

      “when caged will apparently sing any tune it’s told to sing in order to get released”

      Damn straight. So would I and so would you.

      • Don Madio

        If you’re a RAT who has no backbone my friend. Once again, he told Paul to let them take him to Japan, not to pursue him & “not let them return him to New Zealand.”

        COWARD, plain & simple. Do some research my friend.

  • Laurita

    This is so clearly a ploy for attention from Pete Bethune.

    If he really cared about the whales, why do this so close to the Antarctica campaign?

    Why was Ady Gil even quoted? What’s he done other than buy a boat?
    Surely you can’t buy credibility these days? Even the rich can be wrong. But nobody thinks about that.

    • Geordin

      “Why was Ady Gil even quoted? What’s he done other than buy a boat?”

      Yeah, he bought them a boat, a BOAT. He’s done quite a bit if you ask me.

    • From MN, with hope…

      Ady Gil was the owner of the Ady Gil, and leased it to Sea Shepherd.

      • Don Madio

        AND knew the risks….

  • Dennis Morgan

    I think it’s sad that it has all come to this. With what seems to be much more around the corner, I hope some sort of truce can be made to stop this from being a media storm. I’m sure the people in Japan are eating this up as they wash their ships preparing for the best whaling season yet.

  • Don Madio

    @ Geordin: Do you believe everything you read? Just b/c Pete says it, for publicity, doesn’t mean it’s true. I think you need 2 watch Season 3 again & do some in-depth research before believing a publicity whore. Pete chose, like EVERY other SSCS volunteer on land & at sea, to risk his life for SS’s clients, the life in our oceans slaughtered for $$$…..not Ady Gil, Pete’s ego or anything/anybody else, including Captain Watson. As a member of SS, I have done my research thoroughly & challenge anyone to dispute the facts. Pete was on 1 campaign. 1. Capt. Watson has been fighting for our oceans going on 36 years. I’ll yield to his loyalty to the cause, not someone who wants to be on every TV show, magazine, newspaper & all the other mediums he’s using to discredit a humanitarian who forgot more about illegal whaling than Pete ever wished to know. The only reason his book will sell is b/c of the societies success & popularity. We’ll see how he ranks 35 years from now, as my guess he’ll be living it up thanks to the success SSCS brought him.

    • David

      “Do you believe everything you read? Just b/c Pete says it, for publicity, doesn’t mean it’s true.”

      No, do you believe everything you read? Just because Paul says it, for publicity, doesn’t mean it’s true.

      • Don Madio

        Agreed!!

    • Hufingraz

      “I’ll yield to his loyalty to the cause, not someone who wants to be on every TV show, magazine, newspaper & all the other mediums”

      Ummm, are we talking about the same Paul Watson??? As I said before, I was a huge SS supporter and I can at least admit that Paul Watson is a media whore. Maybe the biggest media whore of all time. He will talk to any camera or newspaper he can get in front of. The communications room on the Steve Irwin has about 10 direct lines to every major news organization. Remember, Paul went to the Discovery Channel and ask them for a show, not vice versa. There is no one on this planet that loves publicity more than Paul does.

      • Michael Raymer

        Just my 2 cents here Huf, but everything you just said is a good thing. If Watson was not doing everything you just described, he’d be failing in his duty. It’s his job.

        Here’s what I want you to do. Scroll up the page until you get right under the article. That link to the tabloid site? You see it? Click on it and take a look around. These are the media whores. They either do nothing or what they do shouldn’t get them any more than minimum wage. But no, they are rich and famous (which is why they are on the tabloid site). These are the worthless, selfish, self-promoting media whores and there seem to be more and more of them every day.

        Watson, on the other hand, goes to Antarctica, shoves his boat through pack ice and takes the fight to the whalers. And when he isn’t, he’s raising money, any way he can, so he can go back and do it again. And when he’s not doing these two things, he does what he can to make the world aware of what is going on in the most remote (and ignored) part of the world. If you have a better way to accomplish this, spill it.

        P.S. If by chance you have an issue with me calling you “Huf”, tell me and I’ll use your full handle. But I like calling you Huf.

      • Hufingraz

        Michael – No, I don’t have a problem with you calling me Huf. I will agree that Paul needs the media. That is how he gets his paychecks. I just found it funny when Don Madio said he couldn’t support someone that wants to be on every TV show or newspaper(referring to Pete). But he supports Paul, who LOVES the media and any chance he gets, he is in front of a TV camera. Even if it means spreading a few lies, to help his cause. Paul has admitted that himself. Paul has said that if you don’t know a detail, then just make it up. I loved SS and I would have done anything for them. But I just can’t stand the lies anymore.

      • Michael Raymer

        I’m curious. Have you read the contents of the subsequent article? We keep posting here and the subject has moved on.

  • Liz

    Let’s be honest- I’m as gung-ho about stopping Japan as the next person- I feel strongly that the militaries should be involved and the whaling boats just sunk. However, lying is not the way to do it- especially when you’re lying to your supporters- the very people that are making it possible. Paul Watson’s “DANGIWASSHOT” act brought forth brief publicity, but he and the organization also faced alot of scrutiny after that poor act- the organization is disgraced, and what good is that going to do for the whales if they’re getting less support?

    Furthermore, it should be noted that Pete is not giving up the fight. He’s stepping up and going his own way to do things as he wants- without the limitations of the SSCS. This is detailed here: http://www.facebook.com/#!/notes/pete-bethune/sea-shepherd-and-pete-bethune-a-future-together-by-ian-mcdonald/166223313391452

    • Don Madio

      It’s called ‘Damage Control.’ Capt. Watson’s reputation is impeccable. Pete Bethune wants to sell books. Paul Watson, Chuck, Lauren & all the other SSCS volunteers & members want to save our OCEANS.

      Do your homework people. Don’t you smell a media whore a mile away these days? Pete is a sad example of profiting off the very creatures he ‘claims’ to defend & love.

      I’ve got some land in Pakistan for sale @ .50 cents an acre if you believe that one…..

      • David

        “Do your homework people. Don’t you smell a media whore a mile away these days?”

        Yes and its name is Paul. The stink has been rising for years.

      • Don Madio

        David,

        Your getting a tad creepy mate. I know you feel like you have to dispute the incontrovertible facts, but I’m not the only one on this site who agrees that Pete timed this perfect with the upcoming slaughter in the Antaectic, but really….get a life. One can have an opinion, especially backed by facts.

        You sound very angry & I’m sorry for that. That ‘stink’ apparently is very powerful as SS has never been more popular, while folks like you obviously have an axe to grind with Watson.

        You have proved that more than once in this thread. Are you upset because I know it’s you Niles or are you that jealous of Watson’s success that you will stoop to any level to discredit him.

      • David

        I don’t know who ‘Niles’ is but I am not him, and you have also accused at least one other person of being this ‘Niles’, you are really starting to sound paranoid.

        I have been posting at Ecorazzi and many topics for quite a while but you seem to be brand new. So how much does Paul pay you to fight his battles for him?

      • Hufingraz

        Don – that is definitely David, not Niles. I have been commenting on Ecorazzi for years and David has always been here. I argued many, many days with him. But recently, I have to agree with some of the things he is saying.

      • Annie

        Sorry Don…Watson’s reputation is far from impeccable. But it’s knd of cute that you think so.

      • romika3

        “Capt. Watson’s reputation is impeccable” now that is news. The reason he is in such a mess is because his reputation is no impeccable.

    • Annie

      Liz…the military will never get involved. The Japanese are legally whaling and this is not a real war. It is fake, just like Watson…

      • Don Madio

        So name them Annie. Also, I never said SS owned the Ady Gil. When you learn to read, then you might make some sense, but I doubt it….:

        Don Madio, October 7, 2010 at 10:29 pm
        I know that!!!! Go back & read the original post:

        “Don Madio, October 6, 2010 at 11:55 am
        I’m well aware of the history of the original boat’s purpose. I’m also aware that SSCS was given $2 million dollars to make the boat worthy of Matilda’s campaign. Apparently, I’m striking a nerve with you. The TRUTH always does. Are you a member of Any group Niles? I doubt it. I am, donate regularly & volunteer when I can. So yes, I know my history my friend….”
        And no, you are definitely not my friend, just another bottom-feeder trying to get Pete to hire you. He’s not that stupid Niles, unlike SOME people, so shut up already & learn how to read Niles. While you’re @ it, a class in grammar wouldn’t hurt either.

  • Bob

    Paul Watson lies continuously and consistently. Why does he do it? To take advantage of the gullible and fleece as much money as he can from them. Don’t believe me? Check out this video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_gTBDFTXE0

    • Michael Raymer

      You’re a little late to the party, Bob. That video has been linked here at least a dozen times. What else ya got?

      • Boo radley

        Another sealer with an ax to grind.

  • For the Whales

    Pete Bethune and Ady Gill are cowboys. They are after fame and glory and work to appease their gigantic egos. I personally know a woman who was told by one of these men that if she stuck with him she’d become famous. Pete could not be trusted on this year’s campaign because he would endanger the lives of the crew and their captain because he is now a target for the Japanese Whalers. He has turned on Paul Watson to save his own skin. He lied about the scuttling of the Ady Gil and fesses up now. He’s blackmailing Sea Shepherd and is threatening to disrupt events he has been disinvited to in Australia. He is demanding to go on campaign. Just who does he think he is? What Captain in their right mind would want crew that can’t be trusted onboard? Who is telling the truth? Read the transcripts of the Japanese legal proceedings from PB’s case. I just HOPE Paul Watson releases the footage of PB that exposes him for the lying fool he is. Stop playing nice Paul, time to expose Pete. Shame on you Pete Bethune and Ady Gil. To think I even had the backstabbing Ady Gil in my home …

    • Annie

      How ungrateful…Ady Gil leased his beloved boat to the SSCS for $1.00, and Watson destroyed it. And now you have the unmitigated gall to diss him? You are disgusting and have just as reprehensible morals as Watson. Good luck getting anymore million dollar donations with that attitude.

      • Don Madio

        He’s already gotten more Annie & will get even more money with the likes of you running around making things up. As for the destruction of the Ady, I didn’t realize he steered into port directly at the Ady Gil. No, I’m pretty sure that was the security vessel Pete has spent a year blaming, rightfully so, the SM II.

        Talk about pathetic. Your worse than Niles!

      • Stopthegreed

        What?? Paul was on the Shonan??? thats a new twist. Umm i think you mean the Shonan destroyed the ady aye. Paul was on the Steve irwin 1500 miles away. Oh and the Ady is owned by Paul and Ady. Sea Shepherd is to pay the remainder in November. About 700thousand give or take. You can google that. its true.

  • Laurita

    i read this posted elsewhere by someone:”
    “Basically what this boils down to is PB’s opinions were deliberately placed in the public domain to damage the world’s most effective whale defender and his conservation group.
    Why? Because PB is thowing a childish tantrum because he is not allowed to crew on a Sea Shepherd vessel and because his willing cooperation wit…h the Japanese prosecutors has been discovered.
    PB launched his un-provoced public attack with merely ‘opinions’ and unsubstantiated ‘claims’. Paul has the right to respond if he so wishes.
    At the end of the day – the whales are Paul’s clients and only concern!
    Talking is for cowards……blackmail is selfish…..and online unsubstantiated attacks on whale defenders ultimately risks the lives of even more innocent whales.
    Sea Shepherd – for the Oceans!

    • Boo radley

      I’m not so worried about any of this. Once sea Shepherd head down to tackle the Japanese once again , this little story will be forgotten. Pete Bethune was a link in the chain, but the link has only been removed. The chain has not been broken.

      None of the newspapers will be much interested in this as they see this as just a personality spat, ( gossip) and is inconsequential to the bigger picture.

  • From MN, with hope…

    This will be a total PR nightmare in the end of it, but that’s the topic. Good on Pete for saying what he wishes, and shame on Sea Shepherd, if what he says are true. Personally I have always been skeptical of the whole “Paul’s been shot” thing. But they are lies in the name of saving the whales. I’m not quite sure if that justifies it or not, but like I said: I am pro-Sea Shepherd because I am anti-whaling, and Sea Shepherd gets the results wanted. How many whales have Greenpeace saved in the Southern Ocean? None. HSUS? Zero. PETA? El zilcho. Sea Shepherd? 500 in the last campaign. The lies, frames, and other injustices are filler between the legitimate results. Will I still support Sea Shepherd? Heck yes! I hope that this will cause a change in tides for the better. Regardless, I support Pete, and I support Sea Shepherd. I am an anti-whaler first, Sea Shepherd supporter second, but the two are pretty much one in the same. Nobody else goes down there, and nobody else gets Sea Shepherds results. Sorry to see ya go Pete, but I know where your heart lies. This isn’t the last we’ve heard of you in the conservationism world. You’ve got my support!

    • From MN, with hope…

      Woop, meant to say ‘not the topic’ in the first sentence.

      • Boo radley

        Pete Bethune needs his own show. He is an egotist and needs the attention on himself and make his own decisions. his personality doesn’t lend itself to taking orders from someone else.

        Once he gets his own show, possibly via the new organization that is being set up, then it will be all systems go and we might see some good things coming from Pete. Which would be good and he would get all the support in the world from everyone, I’m sure.

        I wonder if Pete Bethune will send in the co-ordinates of the Japanese fleet to Sea Shepherd?

        Lol.

  • WA Jackson

    Sure sends a reassuring message to would be volunteers.

    • Don Madio

      On that topic, for those who want to become part of the solution chalk this up to a friendly debate. There are many organizations to donate or volunteer to. I will say Sea Shepherd is the only one that engages the Japanese in sanctuaries, so please do your homework, do not get discouraged & choose wisely.

      Thank you for wanting to help. It’s difficult to find folks committed to a worthwhile cause…..Keep up the good fight, no matter the organization you choose to support. Cheers!

  • Kimitake Hiraoka

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive…”

    And so it seems the web of lies, deceit and fabrication are starting to come apart for everyone’s favourite terrorist organisation.

    Michael dEstries, I think all of this strengthens my case for my own blog on Ecorazzi. Everything that Bethune revealed has been clearly and loudly stated by me on this site before. I have been saying it for months, nay years. It’s time Ecorazzi stepped up and shone the light of truth upon this sinister organisation and I am ready to assist in this regard.

    But I have to take issue with Bethune here. Sure, good on him for coming clean and blowing the whistle on the criminal organisation. But why did it take him this long? Why did he wait until the Sea Shepherd thugs had so completely screwed him over to tell the truth? How can he prance around as being morally concerned about his former partners in crime when he happily used them for supporting not only his criminal actions but to assist with his career? It stinks to high heaven if you ask me.

    In fact, they all do.

    But hey, I’ve only been saying it over and over and over again for years…

    • Don Madio

      Terrorists? Crimes? I think you need to take a closer look @ the Japanese whaler’s who are the terrorists hiding behind the guise of research. It is a CRIME to enter a sanctuary & slaughter protected species. Terrorists use ‘security vessels’ like th IM2 in order to protect their slaughters.

      Choose your words carefully mate…..

      • David

        No it isn’t a crime.

        First the sanctuary was established in violation of the IWC’s regualtions.

        Second the sanctuary doesn’t apply to whaling under ICWR Article VIII.

        And finally by the IWC’s own regulations the sanctuary doesn’t apply to Japan.

        That is three stikes, you’re out.

        Maybe you should learn the facts mate….

      • imforthewhales

        The fact is that so called “research’ whaling is a sham and a lie and is nothing but commercial whaling in disguise. It is also a good excuse to get some whale meat into restaurants and school lunch boxes so the kiddies can eat the dose of poison…

        Time to get the facts straight….

      • David

        Do they do research? Yes, hundreds of papers and the IWC Scientific Committee agree.

        Does the ICWR required them to sell the excess meat? Yes.

        Those are the facts.

      • Don Madio

        Laced wit illegal reports. If it wasn’t illegal, why does Japan have terrorist following SS boats. You really are digging a hole Niles…..

      • Michael Raymer
      • David

        Well Don you fight terrorists with terrorists, so Paul started the whole cycle. And he sowed the seeds of his own destruction. Too bad he is going to drag down SSCS with him.

        And nice old video Michael. Really surprising that paid anti-whalers would find against the whalers. Of course the IWC Scientific Committee and numerous peer reviewed journals agree that there is real valuable research being done.

      • imforthewhales

        You mean hundreds of non peer reviewed, useless papers…are these the papers you are referring to? School children high on whale meat could have written that stuff, or Dr Mengles.

        Japanese scientific whaling is a con game, a sham, and a giant, festering lie. Japan needs to be court marshaled for their rape of the worlds oceans!

      • David

        No, as I said;
        “…the IWC Scientific Committee and numerous peer reviewed journals…”

        Seems pretty clear I wasn’t talking about non-peer reviewed papers.

      • AnimuX

        David remarks that the IWC finds Japan’s so-called research “valuable”.

        However, David forgets to mention that the IWC scientific committee has also called Japan’s research flawed and unnecessary for whale stock management.

        David also fails to mention that the IWC has officially and REPEATEDLY called on Japan to stop killing whales.

        As for the “peer reviewed” studies, Australia’s ABC network revealed in 2008 that out of all of the papers produced by Japan’s JARPA program only a small number have been peer reviewed and only 4 of those papers had any relevant information.

        Many scientists have publicly stated that all of the necessary information can be gathered through non-lethal methods. In fact, Australia and New Zealand are currently participating in an ongoing research program of their own to demonstrate that lethal methods of “whale research” are unnecessary.

      • David

        And Animux forgets to mention that the Japanese aren’t doing research for stock management, so why would he expect their research to support objectives that they don’t have?

        The IWC is a political body and makes political statements.

        Get it right Animux, the ABC ‘study’ was in 2006 and was set up by and payed for by anti-whalers. What would you expect their results to say?

        And many scientists have publicly stated that all the necessary information can’t be obtained by non-lethal methods.

        And it is still all legal. Unlike the actions of the SSCS.

      • AnimuX

        Partial transcript from that ’06 ABC Catalyst report.

        “Prof Archer: Alright, that’s it. And from that whole pile of papers we’ve got a total of one, two, three, four papers that can be said to be peer reviewed, that have some relevance to developing or managing a whaling industry and also would require lethal sampling of whales to get that information. Just four papers.

        Nick Gales: So with the eighteen year program and sixty eight hundred whales divided by four papers – that means 1700 whales killed for each one of those four papers.

        Mike Archer: Extremely depressing. Nick Gales: It wouldn’t pass an ethics committee. Archer: No it would not.”

        http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1657789.htm

  • Mick

    It doesn’t matter whether “admiral” watson told Bethune to board the SM#2 or not. The fact is, “admiral” watson knew about his plan and did nothing to stop it. In addition, SS personel and equipment were used, with watson’s knowledge, to enable Bethune to board the SM#2. As “admiral” and leader of SS, watson is responsible for the actions of his crew, including Bethune.

    • Michael Raymer

      Of course it matters. You can spin this any way you want, and Lord knows you will. No one is claiming that Watson does not have his share of the responsibility. But Bethune repeatedly pushed for HIS plan to go forward. And everyone saw it, so keep pissing into the wind.

      • Mick

        @Michael Raymer

        “No one is claiming that Watson does not have his share of the responsibility.”

        It seems to me that watson himself is claiming that he has no responsibility for Bethune’s actions.

        “..Bethune repeatedly pushed for HIS plan to go forward.”

        And as the leader of SS watson has the final say whether the plan is carried out or not.

      • Michael Raymer

        Everything that we can argue about is right there on the show. All interested parties can make up their own minds without us swinging at each other over it.

      • Mick

        @Michael Raymer

        “Everything that we can argue about is right there on the show.”

        Except for scenes that were edited out. As well as private conversations and meetings that were not filmed.

        “…without us swinging at each other over it.”

        Is that how you view my comments, as “swinging” at you. I can assure you this is not the case. Well, that does explain why your posts are often argumentative and insulting.

      • Michael Raymer

        Pot calling the kettle black. And when you demonstrate as often as you have that your role here is merely to be argumentative, the need for courtesy falls by the wayside.

        As for scenes that were edited out, your issue is with Animal Planet, not SSCS (and don’t even start with some bogus claim that AP only shows what SSCS wants unless you have conclusive proof to back up the accusation). “Private conversations”? Operative word being “private”. Meetings that were not filmed? Accusations require evidence. And it should be noted that SSCS allows third party cameras on board. ICR has turned down all requests for cameras to be installed on the whaling…ooops…research vessels. What about the conversations and meetings, let alone the claims of “research” that are happening there?

      • Mick

        @Michael Raymer

        “Pot calling the kettle black.”

        I beg to differ.

        You stated: “Everything that we can argue about is right there on the show.”

        I replied: “Except for scenes that were edited out. As well as private conversations and meetings that were not filmed.”

        I was simply pointing out that, obviously, not all footage was in the show. I was also pointing out the high likelihood that cameras were not present during every conversation or meeting that took place between watson and Bethune. No “accusations” no “bogus claim”, just the opinion that the show is not the be-all, end-all source of information on this issue. If you wish to argue the opposite; be my guest.

  • Cho cho ma

    Pete Bethune LIED. Paul Watson LIED. Sea Shepherd LIED. Simple as that. No doubt Sea Shepherd has lied in the past, but so have we all. No doubt Paul Watson has lied in the past, so what? No doubt that Pete Bethune has lied, and is lying now. Sure the shooting of Paul Watson was most likely fake along with a few other past events associated with Sea Shepherd. Does that mean you stop supporting them, no. Pete bethune lied and unlike Paul Watson and Sea Shepherd the reality that he lied is supported by fact. It is up to us as individuals do look at the information provided to us and decide what is fact, and what is fiction. We all lie. Simple and true. We all lie. Get over it. All of these events seem like a big deal now but come December, none of it will really matter. Over half a million dollars have been invested in Pete Bethune, through his trial. Paul Watson has a right to be angry. He is on a watch list because Pete Bethune LIED. Pete Bethune is a brilliant conservationist, however he acts like a little kid at the end of the day.
    ”If I’d said nothing, I’d be in prison for two years waiting for the trial,” he said. ”The mistake I made was giving Paul’s name.”-Pete Bethune

  • ECOWARRIOR117

    This testimony has shaken me. I have and always will support the total abolition of whaling, but I have mixed feelings now about SSCS. I have a lot of respect for both Pete Bethune and Paul Watson. Paul has been on the front lines since the beginning, fighting with both actions and words, and I truly believe his reasons are just. Pete may be the most courageous individual I know of, a brash, noble, principled man that would lay down his life in a heartbeat.

    Both of these men deserve respect and admiration, but I am forced to agree with Pete. “Moral Bankruptcy” may be something of an exaggeration, but Paul has no reason, no need to lie about anything. The actions of the ICR in Antarctica are despicable and condemnable in of themselves; they require NO embellishment.

    Paul, if you are reading this, I implore you, please, put these problems behind you. This cause is just, and you are a proven leader, a brilliant tactician. Your experience and credibility are some of the greatest weapons you can wield.

    • ECOWARRIOR117

      The more I find out about this, the worse it gets. I really have no idea who to believe.

      • Michael Raymer

        It’s a soap opera dude. You are under no obligation to believe or disbelieve anyone. It really is an inconsequential chapter in a very large book. Don’t lose any sleep over it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1076105348 Hart

    How much you wanna be this is all a ploy to trick the militant Japanese poachers?

    • imforthewhales

      I have got no idea about that but i am tipping there will be no more boardings of Shonun Marus in the future.

  • Mike

    @ from MN with hope

    Have you heard of Orwell? Who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past. It’s interesting to see some people want to claim that SS saved more whales than anyone else. Forgetting that commercial whaling was stopped by public opinion not by SS, IFAW, GP, FOE or any other group is great for the TV fans, but readers of this blog shouldn’t be so guilable. The movement brings change not one stupid group.

    • Michael Raymer

      Commercial whaling has not stopped, it’s still happening. And what “movement” are you referring to?

      • Boo radley

        Yeah excactly, the commerical whaling by japan STILL needs to be stopped …

      • Don Madio

        Ignore him. He’s hellbent on destroying The Society. None of his remarks have any validity & he continues to expose himself as the uniformed, envious hypocrite he is……

        Pete’s not going to hire you Niles!

    • From MN, with hope…

      Orwell? I can honestly say I haven’t heard of him. I was talking about currently. Sea Shepherd is the only group who is willing to go to the SO and oppose the whalers. But on a similar note to what you say, Paul should be credited with saving the most whales. Co-founder of GP, which brought the slaughter to the people, and Sea Shepherd, who brought the attention AND took down the whalers.

      I am not an armchair anti-whaler who gets it all from Whale Wars. I have been around this place for quite some time and am highly devoted to the cause. Anti-whaler first, Pro-Sea Shepherd second.

      • imforthewhales

        Orwell..as in George Orwell…as in 1984, Animal Farm etc

        “Man is the only real enemy we have. Remove Man from the scene, and the root cause of hunger and overwork is abolished for ever. Man is the only creature that consumes without producing. He does not give milk, he does not lay eggs, he is too weak to pull the plough, he cannot run fast enough to catch rabbits. Yet he is lord of all the animals. He sets them to work, he gives back to them the bare minimum that will prevent them from starving, and the rest he keeps for himself.”

        http://www.online-literature.com/orwell/

  • Mike

    Umm were you born in 1994 or something? Commercial whaling when they were killing HUNDREDS of thousands of whales every frigging year mate. When people MARCHED in their HUNDREDs of thousands to stop commercial whaling. Yeah remember that?

    • Michael Raymer

      When whales are being killed, slaughtered and taken back to Japan, where the meat is sold in stores and restaurants, that’s what we call “commercial” whaling. You see, they are “selling” the meat “commercially”. Hence the term, “commercial” whaling. I’m really sorry if the current murder of cetaceans doesn’t meet your expectations and I’m sure that the ICR is even sorrier, but it’s still “commercial” whaling.

      • David

        You see, the ICWR Article VIII requires the excess meat from the research to be sold. Sorry Michael still not “commercial”.

      • Michael Raymer

        Yes, you seem so quick to call Paul Watson a liar yet you prove to be woefully inadequate at acknowledging the lies of the ICR. Pity.

        In case you haven’t noticed, myself and others on my side of the aisle are not propagandists. When we see something we don’t like from Watson or SSCS, we come right out and say so. When we see something we don’t agree with, we don’t whitewash it, we use our integrity to point it out. But you and your kind never seem to reciprocate. You weave your tapestries of lies and disingenuousness. You hide behind your smoke and mirrors. You obfuscate and distort.

        Do not think for a second that just because you post frequently that you have a shred of credibility. You have none. Everyone sees through you and your friends.

      • imforthewhales

        ….if you could count Ginza Glen Inwood and his mate david@tokyo…who spend all their days tweeting each other about how yummy whale meat is… “friends”…lol.

      • David

        What ICR lies are you accuse me of ignoring Michael?

        The ICWR isn’t the ICR and Article VIII of the ICWR is fact. Just because you don’t want to face reality isn’t my problem.

      • imforthewhales

        David…research whaling under the article is one thing.

        Unfortunately, and the big problem is that the Japanese are using this for commercial gain…secondly, the science they produce is a sham and is not needed.

        FACT!

      • David

        So iamforthewhales, you are calling Paul a liar? He says they lost over $70 million last year.

        And just because you don’t think the research is not needed doesn’t make it so. The IWC Scientific Committee appreciates and uses the research every year. Peer reviewed journals publish some of the research. But your not liking it negates every other opinion in the world. Aren’t you special.

  • Mike

    Commercial meaning a form of commerce, entailing trade and economic profit not what we have today which is clearly delivering neither.

    I tell you what we the people stopped in the 1980′s was more horrific than you can imagine.

    • Don Madio

      This remark has been removed due to a violation of our commenting policy.

  • Mike

    Following Bethune’s confession, I wonder how much more of the Shonan Maru and Ady Gil story was a lie.
    From the footage shown on the news of the collision, it seemed to me the Ady Gil was trying hassle the Japanese boat by forcing it to change course.
    The truth could have been established if the Andy Gil had remained afloat for inspection. Instead, we now learn, it was deliberately sunk.

    • From MN, with hope…

      It was deliberately sunk because of the gaping hole in the bow, and it wasn’t salvageable. Even if they had made it to the French base there’s no way it could be made sea-worthy again.

      Then again lets wait for more to be revealed. This whole situation is nuts. Although what we do know is that the Ady Gil was idling when it was struck. The SM2 never should have been that close in the first place.

      • David

        Oh, I didn’t realize you were a naval architect.

        Sorry but I think I will believe the ships builder who was on the scene before I will believe the opinion of someone with no background in ship design, construction or repair who was never within 10,000 miles of the boat.

      • imforthewhales

        Mike…2 words…epic fail

      • Don Madio

        Wrong again ‘David’ (Niles/Annie)

  • Michael Raymer

    Amigo, I snorted my share of coke in the ’80s too. But I stopped before it disintegrated my brain. Since it’s probably been 4 days since you’ve slept, I want you to pour a hot bath, chug a bottle of Crown Royal, pass out on the couch and (this is very important) forget you ever came here, forget you ever came here, forget you ever came here. This site does not exist, we are all imaginary and I won’t be born until 2023 and you’re not allowed to talk to me yet. If you don’t believe me, just ask the little man who lives in the light bulb.

    • imforthewhales

      ha ha thats funny dude

    • Don Madio

      This remark has been removed due to a violation of our commenting policy.

  • Mike

    W00t

  • Matthew Williams

    I have watched Sea Shepderd docus from the past and I am sure they had weapons for defensive purposes in the past, they dont now probably because some sort of decision has been made not to have them… or perhaps they do hidden away just incase. Its a Captains decision what type of weapons he has on board. So Pete and Paul would be doing anything wrong at all by having weapons. However Paul didnt like the idea of them thats all, its just a personal preference thing.

    On the subject of sinking the Ady Gil… am I wrong here but didnt Sea Shepher “pay” for that boat so it beklonged to them and if they want to sink it they can sink it or do whatever they want. Pete was its captain only. A captain sometimes has to do what he is told. Yes I am sure he was very saddened by his baby being sunk as we all were because its an emotional thing but get over it and buy a new one, thats what you were paid the cash so you could do.

    Im just saddened that this has turned into a public bitching war… and im sure the bitching will get worse before it gets better. Oh dear! Focus on the whales please.

    • Don Madio

      Who cares about having weapons to defend oneself, their crew or vessel It’s a maritime tradition to fend off pirates & anyone else who threatens the lives of the crew.

      Again, Pete is grasping for anything that will make him sound credible. He’s pathetic…..

    • Geordin

      No, Ady Gil owned the Ady Gil. He only leased it to the SSCS.

      • Don Madio

        I know that!!!! Go back & read the original post:

        “Don Madio, October 6, 2010 at 11:55 am
        I’m well aware of the history of the original boat’s purpose. I’m also aware that SSCS was given $2 million dollars to make the boat worthy of Matilda’s campaign. Apparently, I’m striking a nerve with you. The TRUTH always does. Are you a member of Any group Niles? I doubt it. I am, donate regularly & volunteer when I can. So yes, I know my history my friend….”
        And no, you are definitely not my friend, just another bottom-feeder trying to get Pete to hire you. He’s not that stupid Niles, unlike SOME people, so shut up already & learn how to read Niles. While you’re @ it, a class in grammar wouldn’t hurt either.

        BTW Niles,

        When’s the last time you volunteered for a cause? Probably the ’80′ when you sold out Greenpeace & ADMIRAL Watson.

      • David

        Thanks for point out your own lies Don. Quoting your own post where you claim SSCS got $2 million to modify the Earthrace in response to a post about SSCS received no money and it was all done through Ady Gil.

      • Don Madio

        Am I the only one, or is Niles once again making no sense??

        Again, have you ever been a volunteer?? I noticed you STILL haven’t answered the question b/c when you do, it will be a lie like the rest of your meaningless rants…..

      • Don Madio

        I don’t know what it is, but I’m really enjoying making you & Annie look stupid:

        Don Madio, October 8, 2010 at 5:23 pm
        So name them Annie. Also, I never said SS owned the Ady Gil. When you learn to read, then you might make some sense, but I doubt it….:

  • Don Madio

    Well said Michhael. The man needs some rest as he makes no sense….

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  • Pat Richards

    I have watched Whale Wars for quite a few years and not until Pete became active in this did things finally start to take a turn for the better for the whales. I seen the episode where Pete boarded the japanese ship and all the episodes leading up to it and NOT in one of those episodes did Paul ever sat that Pete should not board that ship and in previous episodes there was a time when Paul had one of his senior officers ask if anyone would be willing to board the ship. I stand behind Pete 100% and I now seriously question Paul and the others in charge. Pete is a good man and has a TRUE and HONEST passion for saving the whales and will have my support in whatever he chooses to do in the future.

    • Michael Raymer

      Well, I haven’t been watching “Whale Wars” for “quite a few years” because it’s only been on for three. And no one is saying that Watson denied Bethune permission to board. We’re saying, as it was clearly shown, that this was Bethune’s plan and he was the one that was enthused to carry it out. Plan A was for Bethune to go to land and work the media circuit. And it has been my opinion since day one that if he had, things would have gone much better than this hokey little stunt that he pulled. And I’ll say for the record that Watson should not have let him board the Shonan Maru, period. This was a mistake on his part. But, when working with a volunteer with connections the way Bethune is, sometimes you have to make concessions that you don’t want to.

      • David

        Yes because we would never see video of Paul planning a boarding of a Japan ship to deliver a letter.

        Well except for season one.

        And I don’t know about you but I haven’t seen where all the video footage is available. I also don’t believe all conversations and areas are covered by video. So it is kind of hard to claim we say everything.

    • From MN, with hope…

      Once rule of Ecorazzi whaling debate: don’t base your argument on Whale Wars. Ever. Pete was indeed good for the whales, but having 3 ships will help you overall like that. Pete’s optimistic attitude and his lack of fear for failure is what was so enticing. I still support him in whatever he’ll do (to an extent) and I there’s nothing that can stop me. This is one big bump in the road, but that’s all it is: a bump in the road. Things will go on, and Pete will carve his own path. Maybe another group to help in the fight to save the whales. This can only get better for ocean conservation.

  • Don Madio

    The facts speak for themselves Niles & 80% of the people on this site think you are wrong, in EVERYTING you say, except for the correction I admitted to. It’s obvious the truth bothers you & I’m sure you’re getting some royalties from Pete. I however, speak for myself as a volunteer. Your furor is more than obvious & I’ve made you look ignorant more than I intended to as I believe everyone has a right to their opinion. Even people like you. Feel free to keep making a fool of yourself though. I’ve already received several messages about how ignorant you sound NILES.

    I think we’re all a little tired of your rants & lies though, so you may want to tune it down, get a drink & relax…

    Cheers!

  • Dantes

    The whole Sea Shepard fraud is an illegal embarrassment to the USA. A bunch of publicity hounds putting young, idealistic, and naive people in harm’s way for their own personal gratification.

    • imforthewhales

      Nice try, but epic fail.

      • Don Madio

        Epic is being kind bud……

  • Sad Truth

    Umn…sooooo… Watson has been doing this for 30+ years. Is this for real? If so, doesn’t look like he’s accomplished much, now does it? Kinda makes one wonder if its all about his ego and publicity thirst, him knowing full well that all their idiocy only results in the Japanese digging their heels in even deeper.

    Pathetic. Extremism never accomplishes anything except lengthening the time it takes to reach a resolution. 30+ years and counting, countless whales dead and countless more to come.

    • David

      Well Paul fought the whaling by Norway and got it stopped. Oh wait no he just quit on that issue.

      But he fought the whaling in Iceland and got it stopped. Oh wait no he just quit on that issue.

      OK, but he stopped the sealing in Canada. Oh wait no he just quit on that issue.

      There is his work against the whaling in Greenland and Japan’s whaling in the North Pacific. Oh that’s right he hasn’t even attempted any actions against either of those.

      • Don Madio

        WTF have you done Niles. Answer: NOTHING!

      • Don Madio

        You are one envious dude Niles…..
        All these things you claim here & on your website smells exactly what your beliefs are….
        God Bless America!

        PS-You’ve got about 8 more minutes of fame. I’m going to go out on a limb here & say 9
        “No, you hope that, but it’s just going to make them even stronger. I personally made another donation yesrerday & will continue to since I became a member in 2005.
        “Lies, propaganda & wanting to sell books & harpoons taken from dead whales to sell on eBay say everything you need to know about Pete, his cry-baby crew & the biggest of ‘Em all….EGO (aka-Niles!!”)

      • David

        Paul why won’t you just use your real name. We all know it is you. Your writing style is just too distinctive to miss.

        Don’t you have a campaign to get ready for?

      • imforthewhales

        David, you are full of false propaganda today aren’t you> do your research then try to come up with something real to post instead of your midnight fantasies.

  • Cho cho ma

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10027468#utm_campaigne=synclickback&source=deniedbyhost&medium=10027468

    In this video Pete Bethune urges people to continue to support Sea Shepherd.

  • romika3

    I predicted months ago that the sinking of the Ady Gil was a set up for PR, Promotion and to increase funding. I was correct and perhaps there will be more truths coming to light in the near future.

    • Don Madio

      Right, Pete’s going to allow the Ady to be sunk on purpose, then go on a book tour and never make such a claim. Unbelievable….

    • Michael Raymer

      Ridiculous accusation which takes into account your lack of knowledge of boats. Once the saltwater got into the engine and electronics, the Ady Gil was a write-off. Trying to replace the corrupted systems is more expensive than replacing the entire boat. Not to mention that many systems which are secure and reliable are only so because they were put in at the time of construction. Going back and trying to replace an entire ships electronics package and wiring makes them suspect. Same too with the engine and drive train, but not as much. With 100% honesty, if I had been there and in charge, I wouldn’t have made any attempts to tow the Ady Gil. I would have cleaned her out and scuttled her on the spot.

      • Don Madio

        Exactly….Anyone with maritime experience knows that. Well articulated Michael. Pete’s in it for the $$$$, not the SSCS or their clients.

      • romika3

        Regarding the extent of the Ady Gil’s damage. Only the bow is sheared off and as most of her mass was at the stern. She could have been easily towed and salvaged. Diesel engines can be submerged in salt water and if not left long enough can suffer little or no damage. Marine electronics are very cheap (gps, chartplotter, radar etc) and can be replaced with little cost. To quote Seashepherd Security’s post SSCS prime goal is to heighten PR and to maximize fundraising potential and donation base The loss of the Any Gil provided a great PR boost and there was a significant increase in donations following the sinking. Saving the Ady Gil would have not resulted in benefits for the organization.

      • Michael Raymer

        Hogwash. First of all, I wasn’t talking about components. I was talking about the electonics system (circuit panels, fuse boxes and wiring). You can’t just replace these items and trust them to work. The submergerged diesel engine can conceivably be salvaged(it’s a process called pickling), but romika says it himself, ” if not left long enough can suffer little or no damage”. You’re in the Antarctic on a whaling campaign and it will take weeks if not more to get the boat to any kind of marine facility. That’s long enough. Not to mention the reduction gear and drive train. And the Ady Gil is to other boats what an F1 race car is to automobiles. No one in their right mind is going to try to replace these systems and then try to take such a boat outside the sight of land, let alone hundreds and hundreds of miles into the Antarctic.

        Claiming, in a off-hand way, that towing an ocean going boat by the stern is feasible is also hogwash. Try it sometime. Try it with a boat that ISN”T taking on water. You’ll still have problems and take forever to get anywhere. There is a reason why boats and ships are designed the way they are.

        If anyone is going to claim that sinking the Ady Gil gets more in PR value than the ship itself, prove it. Demonstrate your logic. This is a baseless, puerile claim that has no foundation in fact or reality. If I’m wrong then connect the dots for me and show proof that SSCS gains by losing this ship. And remember, I didn’t like the Ady Gil. They should have sold it at a boat show and used the money on a real anti-whaling vessel. But the fact remains that is was deliberately and illegally rammed by the Shonan Maru and rendered unsalvageable. Scuttling her was the absolute right tactic. Propaganda isn’t going to change that.

      • From MN, with hope…

        JUST the bow? Try cutting the whole front end off your boat and see how that works for you. The interior was exposed, and the port sponson was breached. No way that boat could have continued on. You say JUST the bow, I say the WHOLE bow. Do you think the bow ends at the waterline? It doesn’t matter where all the mass is, if water is entering the hull, than you’ve got a problem.

        Cheap is a rather relative term. My laptop is cheap relative to a Mac, and a Toyota is cheap relative to Bentley. The electronics specifically on the Ady Gil were indeed salvaged, and they were very high end.

        That boat was doomed the second the SM2 rammed it. No way it could have been fixed. The designers/engineers Pete contacted on the matter said that they couldn’t get it seaworthy again. If it would have been salvaged it would’ve been a museum piece, same place it would have ended up at the end of her life anyways.

      • romika3

        From MN, with hope perhaps you can give us an overview of you natuical experience, tickets (ie mate, captian etc) and sea time.

      • Michael Raymer

        romika, I asked a question and I want an answer. Quoting my post above:
        “If anyone is going to claim that sinking the Ady Gil gets more in PR value than the ship itself, prove it. Demonstrate your logic.”

        Perhaps you could also respond to the other statements while you’re at it. Your allegation that the Ady Gil could have been “easily towed” points to your own lack of maritime experience, so maybe you want to lay off MN.

      • romika3

        “If anyone is going to claim that sinking the Ady Gil gets more in PR value than the ship itself, prove it. Demonstrate your logic.” As SSCS for their records on donations after the sinking and the media value. They are non-profit and they have to make it available. There lies you anwser. The Ady Gil was sten heavy and thus the bow, under tow, would ride high. You have a bad habit of name calling when you get backed in a corner, that tells alot in itself.

      • From MN, with hope…

        How does that matter romika? I’m not deflecting, I just want to know why, and I know once I answer you’ll just rant about it.

      • Michael Raymer

        I called you romika….is that not your name? Am I not allowed to use your name? Is that the name calling you are referring too? You have a bad habit of making accusations based on nothing at all, and THAT tells a lot in itself.

        I would like you to explain how the donations after the sinking have any bearing on the tactical expediency of scuttling an unsalvageable ship. The ship was waterlogged, all internal systems were trashed and it would take too long to tow it anywhere for a repair that would be more expensive than the boat itself. The bow was not out of the water and either way, there was no way to tow it bow forst without letting more water in.

        Just more smoke and mirrors from you. You have no case whatsoever.

      • romika3

        Michael Raymer, sorry I withdraw my comment about name calling. I misread one of your comment. Perhaps a smudge on my reading glasses. My apology.

      • From MN, with hope…

        romika, just because one end is heavier than the other means nothing. That wasn’t a balancing act. In the photos after the incident of Pete on the Bob Barker with the Ady Gil behind him you can see it is already starting to nose forward. No way the Ady Gil could be fixed. Pete said that is they had made it to the French base than the Ady Gil would end up in a museum, where it belongs as record-holder to circumnavigating the globe on bio-fuel.

      • Michael Raymer

        Apology accepted. Don’t worry about it.

  • http://www.pisstophe.com pissed off

    Pete Bethune was wrong here, he had no fault to go off of. I don’t understand the whole letter of recognition anyway, was it really his fault? NO!!! I am pissed off.

    • Don Madio

      He wants to sell books & people who have never volunteered a day in their life, Annie/Niles (David), eat this up as an opportunity to fester their cause of BS, not to mention royalties.

  • seashepherdsecurity

    There is no doubt that we lie. In our training were were told that the truth does not matter and where possible we should either make up data or present data in such a way as to “distort” the truth. Our prime goal was PR and to increase donations.

    • imforthewhales

      I’ve got a bridge to sell…anyone interested?

  • http://www.veganjapan.net herwin

    even if mr Bethune is right, i get the impression that most what matters to him is his bruised ego and the publication of his book.
    He is really just a beginner, it was his first campaign and all he did suffer was a slap on the wrist from the Japanese.

    Paul might tell a lie or two, but action speaks louder than words, and Paul has dedicated his life protecting whales and the marine environment and has suffered many real threats and did spend considerable jail time.
    Seems like Paul is fighting for the whales, and mr Bethune is fighting for personal dignity because he feels he is treated badly and unjust.

    I would say to mr Bethune, swallow your pride and go on with your life. To mr Watson i would say, please stop telling lies because that will hurt us animal activists all in the end.
    (nobody believes such lies like Japanese coastguard did actually shoot at mr Watson and that the bullet stuck in his bullet proof vest..)

  • romika3

    Aside from lies, the SSCS organization filters and distorts information. In a 2009 interview with Larry King (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kimcoJc7wcw) Paul Watson informed the viewers all whales were endangered. This was incorrect as the minke, the major of the harvested whales, are not endangered. None of this was mentioned. When asked about the status of the whale populations, Watson was unable to answer the question. How can a conservation organization that goes into the field to protect a population not even know what the population is of the animals they protect? He goes on to deflect the question to a whale species that was no hunted and stated that “the Japanese wanted to hunt them. This is alone is a red flag. A conservation organization that cannot provide basic data to justify what they do is questionable. Of great concern is that this organization has charitable status and all the good people give money to the organization when really how they use these funds are questionable. Pete may be the first of many who may come forward and reveal the truth about this organization.

    • AnimuX

      Pro-whaling antagonists, who are out to demonize environmental organizations like Sea Shepherd, often make false and uninformed claims.

      1) All species of the great whales are protected by multiple international resolutions globally.

      2) Japan kills endangered and vulnerable species every year for the JARPN II and JARPA II so-called “research” programs.

      The “take” can be clearly seen on the International Whaling Commission website.

      This includes:
      Endangered Sei whales
      Endangered Fin whales
      Vulnerable Sperm whales

      Japan also imports the meat of endangered Fin whales killed by Iceland.

      Up to 46% of the Common Minke whale meat found in Japanese markets comes from the vulnerable “J-stock” according to the results of a DNA study released in 2009.

      3) The health of Antarctic Minke whale “populations” is currently unknown. The International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) clearly states in its “data deficient” evaluation of Antarctic Minkes that there is conflicting information about these populations. The species could either be “Least Concern” OR “Endangered” depending on which reports are more accurate – more information is required.

      • David

        And everything you are whining about is legal.

        So work to get the laws changed. Is that too hard? Are just not enough of an ego boost?

        Illegal and violent actions against the whalers isn’t going to stop the whaling, in fact it probably has the opposite effect.

      • romika3

        So what are you trying to say? This is all available on the internet. Does Watson know how to use the internet? Looks like you are trying to deflect from the previous comment that Watson, who claims to be a conservationalist, knows nothing about the issue.

      • AnimuX

        The legality of what Japan is doing has been disputed internationally since the so-called “research” whaling began.

        Several international independent legal panels have concluded Japan is violating international agreements.

        Australia has filed against Japan with the International Court of Justice to get a definitive and binding ruling on the matter.

      • AnimuX

        It’s unfortunate that pro-whaling antagonists continue to pretend as if Japan is not killing endangered whales. However, the fact is Japanese whalers regularly kill endangered and vulnerable species for commercial gain.

      • romika3

        I was looking for the break down of species harvested during the 2010 season by the Japanesse Do you have such data or a link to it?

      • David

        “The legality of what Japan is doing has been disputed internationally since the so-called “research” whaling began.

        Several international independent legal panels have concluded Japan is violating international agreements.”

        And several international independent legal panels have concluded Japan is not violating international agreements.

        That is why there are courts, to settle disputed interpretations. So it is a good thing that someone finally had the conviction to actually bring a case. Too bad the ICWR is written in such plain language that they have little chance to win. What happened to that injunction against Japan that they and their legal experts where so sure they would get?

        “It’s unfortunate that pro-whaling antagonists continue to pretend as if Japan is not killing endangered whales.”

        Really, I haven’t seen many make that claim and those that do are uniformed, just like the anti-whalers that make false claims just because the read it on a anti-whaling blog. It is a plain to find fact that Japan hunts species that are listed as endangered. And it is legal.

      • crumpets are yummy

        Japan is operating in violation of many things including a court order against them issued by Australian courts. I am sure you would be bother aware of that fact, and also be ready to dismiss it as “not relevant”.

      • David

        The judge who issued the verdict in that case even said that it was useless, unless the Japanese start hunting in Australian waters.

        And we all know even the Australian government won’t support their bogus claim to an EEZ around Antarctica. They even specifically didn’t mention it in their ICJ case.

  • romika3

    Perhaps the question here is not if the Ady Gil was deliberately scuttled but rather the “honesty” of an organization with charitable status and is supported through donations. Obviously stating that the Ady Gil was “sunk” by the Japanese carried more potential for raising funds than saying it was “hit” and then had to be scuttled by the SSCS. (perhaps those close to SSCS can post that funding data to either prove or disprove this statement). This also would apply to the interview (parts one and two) given to Larry King where focusing on “endangered” and the few species on that list that were harvested rather than the minke whale, that makes up the majority of the harvest would garner more support and more fund raising potential. But then, has many have said, the SSCS is basically a terrorist organization using terrorists methods to achieve there goals. (perhaps those close to SSCS can post of list of these methods and comment on if they are indeed terrorist methods or not) Honesty perhaps is not a characteristic of such organizations.

    • Michael Raymer

      Ah, I see. Now that your ridiculous claims of “PR scuttling” has been thoroughly discredited, quick, change the subject! romika, the Ady Gil WAS sunk by the Japanese. It’s not a statement, it’s not a claim. It is an established fact that the Ady Gil was deliberately rammed by the Shonan Maru and no amount of obfuscation is going to change that. Said ramming endangered the lives of the crew aboard and resulted in the loss of the ship itself. The clear video evidence shows the fact that the Shonan Maru deliberately changed course AND that the crew was not in a defensive or offensive posture (which I have stated previously, they should have been).
      “Perhaps the question here is not if the Ady Gil was deliberately scuttled ” Nope, that IS the question here. And the question has been answered.

      • romika3

        Nobody disproved that the scuttling was not driven by the protential PR and media benefits. A request was put forward for someone to post data to support or disprove the “spike” in media and donations after the sinking. This should be public data as the SSCS is supported by public donations and has non-for-profit status. Until that is done nothing is disproven. The botton line is that in the media the messaage was “Japanese Whaling ship sinks the Ady Gil” this is a false statment. Regarding the video, which is always brought up, there is one thing clear the Ady Gil accellerated before impact, Watson, as in the past, was looking for an “event” so when dealing with an organization that delibertly distorts the truth, tells it members to lie and provide false data it is any wonder that whatever SSCS does is suspect.

      • Michael Raymer

        First of all, I disproved it in my posts of Oct 8 @ 5:41 and Oct 9 @ 4:08. Disproved it beyond any shadow of a doubt. Whatever “spike” in donations is meaningless. And if there was a spike in donations, and you’re complaining about it, than apparently there is public data available or you wouldn’t have mentioned it.

        This whole “disprove” thing is where you pro-whalers go off the rails. You like to make ridiculous and inflammatory claims, then ask for someone to “disprove” them. No one is under any obligation to do so, especially to someone who continually ignores and avoids the truth. It is up to YOU to PROVE your bogus claims.

        It is clear that the Ady Gil did NOT accelerate before the ramming. There is no video proof. All the video evidence shows that there was absolutely no acceleration as there was no indication of it by the many crewmembers sitting on the stern. If the Ady Gil had accelerated, the crewmembers would have fallen off the back of the boat. Also, no one would have accelerated with the crew in such a position.

        This is what I keep talking about. You keep whining about “truth” while continuously spreading lies and misinformation based on your own bias. And I honestly don’t know why you insist on doing so. You are fooling no one. Not one person here is failing to see through your nonsense claims and trouble making. You are wasting your time.

      • romika3

        Funny, but your replys say alot about nothing. If you support the SSCS organization then say something worthwhile give us some data. Althought that might be difficults as SSCS and it members cann’t backup anything they do or say.

      • David

        “First of all, I disproved it in my posts of Oct 8 @ 5:41 and Oct 9 @ 4:08. Disproved it beyond any shadow of a doubt.”

        No you gave your opinion as to why it wasn’t just a PR scuttling. You actually didn’t prove anything. Proving takes facts and since you weren’t there you assumptions about the damage to the Ady Gil and its salvagability are just that assumptions.

      • From MN, with hope…

        With that logic David, than none of us here can prove a thing! We’re just milling about making opinions about what did and didn’t happen. You weren’t there, so who are you to say what you do? None of us were there, because we were here. With your logic, what we’re doing is just making long-winded opinions about it all.

        No way we can use firsthand experience, but we can get what we have as facts, piece them together, and find what it probably was based on what we have. At least on this side of the table.

      • Michael Raymer

        David, I have spent a lot of time in shipyards and around boats. I have both been involved in marine salvage and been around people who are very knowledgable about the subject. When I talk about the salvageability of the Ady Gil, I know what I’m talking about.

        “Proving takes facts and since you weren’t there you [make] assumptions”. Keep that in mind the next time you or your side makes accusations. You guys keep accusing us anti-whalers of the exact same offenses that you commit. This thread (among others) is proof of that.

      • David

        Well good for you Michael. And how much of that vast experience was with one of a kind carbon fiber boats? I would guess about zero.

    • Michael Raymer

      Nope, epic fail. I have responded with concrete evidence for each of your bogus claims. You are so content to hide behind your wall of prejudice and bias that you refuse to see it.

  • AnimuX

    The 09/10 numbers have not been posted on the IWC website yet.

    As for the Antarctic hunt, in 2010 Japanese representatives announced they killed 506 “data deficient” Antarctic Minke whales and 1 endangered Fin whale and that their catch fell short due to interference from Sea Shepherd.

    The 08/09 numbers for JARPA II and JARPN II from the IWC are:
    1 Fin whale – Endangered
    2 Sperm whales – Vulnerable
    100 Sei whales – Endangered

    50 Brydes whales – Data Deficient
    171 Common Minke whales (North Pacific & coastal) – Least Concern (LC overall but many from vulnerable J-stock)
    680 Antarctic Minke whales – Data Deficient

    http://www.iwcoffice.org/conservation/table_permit.htm

    • romika3

      Thanks for the data. Here is my question why does SSCS not provide the real data on whaling in the southern ocean. Clearly the Minke is the dominate species in the harvest, yet in their PR, interviews etc they focusing only on the Fin, Sperm whales etc. The average individual who donates gets a “stilted” message. Perhaps if the SSCS were honest and backed off on the violence and terror methods they might find a place as conservation organization with some credibility. In Watson’s book Earthforce he tells his members to lie, make up and/or distort data and perhaps that is his way. He perhaps has always been a liar and thus his organization. He did this with the Canadian Seal Hunt. Sealer, Whalers etc tend to dig in their heals in with such organizations practice these methods. The SSCS is in by books a eco-terrorist organization that used terror to achieve the goals and lead by a man who is basically a liar and will do anything to bring in the money and get his “face” in the media. If one looks a the members of the SSCS board of directors there is no one with any creditability, that tells a lot.

      • TrueMetis

        There are also pretty much no trustworthy scientists on their side either.

    • romika3

      I stand to be corrected but the combined population of minki whales in the southern ocean is well over 500 thousand animals. The2010 harvest is approximatley .1 percent of the population From a conservation perspective (wildlife managment) is this a sustainalbe harvest. Watson sent 2 million dollars to the botton this spring. That money could have been better spent on answering these questions and deal with some of the “Data Deficient” data. That’s the kind of base line research REAL conservation organizations do and support. You see folks this is the problem with the SSCS it IS NOT an conservation organization. They are crooks, priated and terroists who get thier jollies attacking honest fisherpersons who have to bring money home to put food on the table for thier kids.

      • http://www.uniquedive.se chris

        where do u get ure numbers from ???
        even if there would be 200,000,000 whales… not a single one has to be killed !! just leave them alone

      • whale`

        Its got nothing to do with numbers, If it did then we should be hunting the 7 billion humans on the planet for food. I have a huge problem with blowing the spine out of any species including Humans and having them take up to 45mins to finally die just so someone can make a buck. Its about respect. And Only a stupid person would throw around the “Terrorist” word for an organisation which is PRO life and has never hurt or killed anyone. Its a lame arguement. And as for the Japanese Whaling industry being “honest” you have to be joking. Its run by the yakuza, Hardly an Honest group of fishermen trying to put food on the table for their kids. Do your homework

  • crumpets are yummy

    Nice trolling there Romika 3…I see that you have also been busy trolling on u tube, supporting all the “Sea Shepherd= bun laden” videos.

    you should be ashamed of yourself.

    • romika3

      You forgot to mention the commnet I left that stated that SSCS was in the same league.

  • Pingback: Pete Bethune’s ‘Whale Warrior’ Book Now On Sale « ecorazzi.com :: the latest in green gossip

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  • Beth Ann Senderak

    Wow. Pretty biased article. Lots of BS if you ask me. Is there anyone else besides SSCS actually saving whales in huge numbers. Nope, can’t think of anyone. Paul is genius. He has been doing this since the 70′s and has saved millions of marine animals. I think he could care less what you think of him. I think he is an amazing human being that has put his life on the line over and over again. Do your homework.

    • TCV

      really? Why doesn’t he go to Japan himself?

  • metro

    Watson is NOT American…he is Canadian! Get it right!

    Sea Shepard is a joke and i hope they are sunk losing all hands!

    • http://twitter.com/Richard_Wilkes love hurts,

      He still American, there is south central and north America, so he is from America, he is Canadian , however he is not from the usa,

  • dave

    We need more people like Pete Bethune. Let get over the politics going on and bring Pete Back!

  • Peter la Cock

    Does Pete honestly think that any of his actions were noble? I sat and watched while he said he wants to board the Japanese vessel. Paul Watson did not order him to get on that ship ,he did it of his own choosing. Attacking the Sea Shepherds like this is childish especially for a man of his age. At one stage Pete almost set the Steve Irwin on fire which endangered the entire crew. Pete is selfish and needs to sit and reflect on what he has said and accused the Sea Shepherds of. Its shamefull to say the least!

    • CelticThunda

      None of us can really say anything for we are constantly seeing one half of the story….never the full story.

    • danielxxlee

      He lost his ship for the SS. That compares to a very small fire that was easily contained and extinguished? Get off that high horse.

  • Lloyd

    Sounds like the Japanese got to Pete and told him he better trash SSCS or if he somehow gets in trouble with them again he would serve major time in prison. Also sounds possibly like he’s just a whiny little beeotch.

  • Jabbahud

    I watched all the episodes of WW and im rewatching them now :P Paul and Pete are both great ppl, sometimes ppl get angry because of turn of events, i just hope they will all be friends again :P Pete is a great guy, and Paul is basically a god, he is out there, saving our cowards lazy asses.

  • Helaina

    I think that this article is very very bias and this whole issue is constantly only showing us half the story and we most likely will not ever know the pure truth of this situation. However I also think that it is likely that the Japanese government may have very well gotten to Pete, as it would certainly not be the first time the Japanese government has been thought of as corrupted.

  • Bluerayjennings

    He gets as close as possible. He’s not allowed in the country

  • http://vargiveum.wordpress.com Varg i Veum

    I love the show and I love Seashepherd for what they are doing. But I remember how fake the situation with watson felt. The Japanese whalers obviously sank Ady Gil on purpose, no one should be surprised about that, Japanese whalers and dolphin-killers are that kind of people it seems, but shooting Paul…nah… I dont think so. I found that very disappointing. I agree with Pete Bethune that there is no need to make things up. Why would they want to do that? Does animal planet require SS to invent drama? Isnt there enough?

    Something fishy is it with the whole Pete Bethune thing imo. He should have gotten way more support from Sea Shepherd imo. The whalers destroyed his ship for crying out loud!
    But thats all politics, that wont deter me from keep funding Seashepherd, at the end of the day they do something when governments are impotent.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sweroup Sweroup Nana

    you team not feel shy. becouse your team did not Nissin Maru to stop whale wars.

  • cokefest

    “The organisation does not need to lie or be deceptive to sell its message.”

    That is all.

  • Adam Roscoe

    Before even hearing about this whole debacle; it was clear to me that SSCS were not simply the noble crusaders of moral integrity and ethical justice they portray themselves to be, and that at an executive level – they are no less corrupt and manipulative than your average corporation or political party.

    Even after all the footage has been cut and edited into the final broadcast – there are still constant ‘red flags’ that appear throughout the entire series; regarding the way SSCS treats its volunteers and the manor in which they deal with the media and the public. Not to mention the amount of witness testimony available on the internet, detailing some of their more foul actions.

    Anyone watching closely enough, and who is objective enough to see things as they are, will see numerous examples of deceit, disrespect, and manipulation being perpetrated against both volunteers and the audience/general public – mostly by Paul Watson, senior members of SSCS, and the producers at Animal Planet.

    Of course I agree with their cause, and there is no doubt that the vast majority of their members and volunteers are people of integrity and strong moral character – but there are numerous examples of these qualities being taken advantage of by senior staff, with volunteers being manipulated or coerced into certain actions, and then being ‘fed to the wolves’ once their usefulness has come to an end.

    This is not to say that SSCS is a ‘bad’ organisation, or that their cause is unjust or unworthy – but as Pete Bethune puts it – they have treated both their supporters and their audience in a way that is disrespectful, unnecessary, and unbecoming of a purportedly ‘ethical’ organisation.

    Blind supporters of SSCS are always going to ‘look the other way’ and will always attempt to equivocate regarding their dishonest conduct, as per the near-religious zeal that SSCS engenders among avid environmentalists – but this does not change the reality of the situation, nor does it invalidate the many reports and complaints that have surfaced over the years regarding the organisation and its treatment of volunteers.

    The pattern we have seen emerge with SSCS (at least at an executive level), is one of elitism, cynicism and deceit – with naive and enthusiastic volunteers being used, taken advantage of, and essentially disposed of when convenient or advantageous to the organisation.

    Of course; Watson’s argument is that he is clear in his pre-requisites for volunteers, in that they should be willing to sacrifice their own lives for the cause – and so as far as his own reasoning goes; this gives him permission to ‘sacrifice’ people on a legal, financial, or logistical basis – when he and his organisation have something to gain from it.

    Not exactly the romantic and noble “died saving a whale” premise that most people would assume it to be, but a perfect example of the general contempt that Watson feels towards most people – an attitude that can be observed in things as simple as the way he talks to his crew, most especially his younger volunteers.

    He also argues that the mass-media are so biased against SSCS, that he has ‘no choice’ but to ‘play the game’ – in staging dramatic incidents, scripting falsehoods, and taking morally dubious actions to denigrate the opposition while advancing their cause. This includes deceptive PR strategies, legal tactics, and political games which stand in complete contradiction to the general set of values he claims to uphold.

    This type of ‘end justifies the means’ conduct is both morally indefensible and completely unnecessary. The cause and mission of SSCS only loses credibility and is bought into disrepute when faithful supporters realise they’ve been lied to and deceived for the sake of good drama, marketing, and PR-points.

    To reiterate Bethune’s message again; the overall mission of SSCS does not need to be ‘sold’ through staged theatrics, PR games, and deceptive marketing, as it is clear that the public overwhelmingly support the aims of SSCS on a purely moral and ethical basis.

    As far as I can see; the organisation would do just fine without Paul Watson and some of his senior colleagues, despite the evangelical rhetoric that is constantly spouted regarding his messianic role in the world of environmental activism.

    He’s a great fundraiser, a great frontman, and a great publicist for the organisation, but he promotes the cause by employing controversy, sensationalism, and ethical fraud, rather than relying on honesty and integrity to elicit support – while using his faithful and committed volunteers as pawns on the media chessboard.

    This is what I have a problem with, and evidently, what Pete Bethune and a lot of other ex-volunteers have a problem with.. There are two sides to every story, and although ‘Whale Wars’ obviously tends toward sympathy with SSCS, the other side of the story can be seen if you have the eyes to see it..